Jason Fladlien: Become a Master of Influence and Persuasion | Part 2
Jason Fladlien: Become a Master of Influence and Persuasion | Part 2
Jason Fladlien is one of the most successful online entrepreneurs in the world. In fact, Joe Polish has called him “one of the top 5 living marketers on the planet.” Jason is often called in by 7, 8, and even 9-figure companies to help them with their marketing. To date, he is the only marketer Zoom specifically brought in to help its own users with webinars!
In this episode, Hala and Jason will discuss:
– How to keep people watching your webinar
– The perfect length of a webinar
– Reducing the limiting beliefs of your customers
– How to transform, not inform, your audience
– Performing ecological checks on your audience
– How to navigate larger markets
– Why success is in “the 10,000 hours”
– And other topics…
Jason Fladlien is known as the quarter-billion-dollar webinar man. His pitch webinars have set records in the information, coaching, affiliate, and software space. He draws upon his eclectic background for inspiration, from being a Hare Krsna monk and a rapper born and raised in the small town of Muscatine, Iowa. Jason has risen to the top of several industries including information products, software, coaching, consulting, speaking, and eCommerce.
Jason is often called in by 7, 8, and even 9-figure companies to help them with their marketing. To date, he is the only marketer Zoom specifically brought in to help its own users with webinars. These days Jason spends much of his focus on Strategic Positioning – whereas other marketers try to figure out the best recipes and how to be the best chef, Jason figures out how to get the best ingredients in place first.
Jason’s Website: https://jasonfladlien.com/
Jason’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fladlien/
Jason’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/Jason_Fladlien
Jason’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jasonfladlien/
Jason’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jasonmfladlien/
Jason’s Podcast The Jason Fladlien Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-jason-fladlien-show/id1649795547
Jason’s book One to Many: https://www.amazon.com/One-Many-Secret-Webinar-Success/dp/1544500629
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[00:00:00] Jason Fladlien: The first 35 years of my life, I spent trying to prove my worth by being successful. It's a hole in a bucket. No amount of money that you put into that bucket will fill that hole. The second half of my life is how do I be totally okay with who I am as a spirit, whether I saw a hundred million or a billion dollars or whether I never sell another damn dollar again.
[00:00:35] That's the goal. There's one thing I know to be true in this business. Most customers are afraid to be vulnerable because if they're vulnerable, it puts them in a state where they can be harmed. And unfortunately, most customers have been harmed before when they put their trust in gurus and they were taken advantage of.
[00:00:54] What they care about is they see that you care about them, and you also are showing that you [00:01:00] won't give up on them, and that you understand them. And there are more fortunes to be made with that, than any other technique that I could teach you.
[00:01:12] Hala Taha: What is up, Young and Profiters? You're listening to YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast where we interview the brightest minds in the world and unpack their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. I'm your host, Hala Taha. Thanks for tuning in and get ready to listen, learn, and profit.
[00:01:44] I knew that you mentioned this whole goal is to keep people to the end of the webinar. Why is that so important? Why do you got to keep people to the end of the webinar?
[00:01:51] Jason Fladlien: Yeah! If they don't see the offer, they can't buy it.
[00:01:54] Hala Taha: That's why, so you're not soliciting the offer till the end, the absolute end.
[00:01:58] Jason Fladlien: Usually, right? There are [00:02:00] rare exceptions to that. And it's important, really quickly, to understand why. If you look at the best comedians, they have a setup and then they have a punchline. And the setup is a lot longer than the punchline. And they can't just come out with the punchline. And so for you to have your punchline, your biggest, most powerful insight, there needs to be a lot of setup involved, usually.
[00:02:21] And so we need to spend the time in order for people to properly evaluate the offer before we show them what the offer is. And that's why we need them to stay till the end to see the offer. Now, a webinar is just the midpoint of a campaign. There's what happens before the webinar, what happens after the webinar.
[00:02:39] So there are ways on the follow up we can get them to see the offer too and so on and so forth. But the other thing too, and this is just sunk cost fallacy. It's people will value that in which they spend their time with. So the more time you spend with something, the more you tend to value it, regardless of whether that's true or not.
[00:02:58] And so if I can get you to spend [00:03:00] more time with me, you're more likely to buy from me. Now, I don't like to do that manipulatively. I think it's a, you don't want to trick your people into buying from you. It's just a poor customer you get at the end of the day. But if you have something of value, and one of the ways people can evaluate that value is they say, I don't know, I choose to spend my time with you as opposed to somewhere else.
[00:03:19] It totally helps to frame in the light what your value really is. It's just another way of doing that. So we got to hook them in. The other thing too, is there's active listening and then there's passive listening. And so in school, we mostly passive listen. We were in the room, we were present, we got our attendance taking, but everything went in one ear and out the other.
[00:03:39] But if we give people targets to look for and try to find, then their mind starts to be active and they start to, to interact with what you're teaching, not just passively have it wash over them, which is really important for comprehension and then therefore through persuasion.
[00:03:55] Hala Taha: How long should our webinars be?
[00:03:56] Jason Fladlien: Great question. My average webinar is about four [00:04:00] hours. Now out of context, that sounds insane. So let me contextualize it, right? The slides that I have for my webinar prepared for it will take me usually between 75 to 90 minutes, depending on the price point, depending on how sophisticated the offer is to impact, depending on the audience, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:04:19] But a good rule of thumb is the formal portion of the presentation should end between 60 and 90 minutes. So then, where is the rest of the time coming from? The rest of the time is coming from, cause most of my webinars are live. I wish I could automate them, but makes too much money doing it live to automate it.
[00:04:35] Hala Taha: You got to do it live. I agree.
[00:04:37] Nobody wants to watch something like pre recorded right now. People want the interaction.
[00:04:42] Jason Fladlien: It's soulless when it's pre recorded. And I get it, and there are times when it makes sense to do it pre recorded, but every time I broke out the calculator and did the math, I'm like, I save more time overall and make more money when I do it live.
[00:04:54] And it's more fulfilling, too. So we do most of ours live, and we have an audience. [00:05:00] And so to me, the real webinar starts after all, everything's on, the cards are on the table, everything's laid out, and now it's just me and an audience, and I'm trying to figure out, is there anything I can say to get them to buy, and if so, what needs to be said in order for this person to buy. Which may be different from that person, which may be different from that person, which may be different from that person, and what's beautiful about this is while you're selling to this person over here, everybody else is getting another reason to say yes.
[00:05:25] And so the cumulative effect of that is really effective too. But even more important than all of that is you really, truly understand and learn what makes your audience tick below the surface, because there's one thing I know to be true in this business.
[00:05:38] Most customers are afraid to be vulnerable because if they're vulnerable, it puts them in a state where they can be harmed. And unfortunately, most customers have been harmed before when they put their trust in gurus or into solution providers. And they were taking advantage of, and so they're not going to really tell you what you need to hear in order to decide, whether it makes sense [00:06:00] for them to be your customer or not until you've really earned their trust.
[00:06:04] And that usually is about three hours. That's when you really find out what's at stake and why people are or aren't buying and not only is that beautiful, from a point of sale and you get some of the greatest customers you could ever get on a micro level. But then on a macro level, you start to infuse in the DNA of all your marketing. What you're channeling and what you've been empathic towards from these interaction with these beautiful customers. These wonderful souls that are on your webinars that haven't bought yet, but are still hanging in there.
[00:06:36] So there's something they need to hear. They haven't heard before in order for them to say yes to the offer you're making. And that's why most of our webinars end up landing four hours. Now, I'll shut it down quicker if there's no energy or electricity going on.
[00:06:48] Hala Taha: So it's basically 90 minutes of content and then what, you're going through Q& A or just handling objections?
[00:06:54] Jason Fladlien: Yeah! And I don't ever call it Q& A because then that presupposes that they're asking questions and I'm giving [00:07:00] answers. We literally it's time to figure out if it makes sense for you to invest in this thing or not. So you're right. It's completely in dealing with objections and really all those are limiting beliefs.
[00:07:12] Are there limiting beliefs that are not needed anymore, that don't serve you and hold you back, and can we unlimit those beliefs? And that's where we really have a deep exploration.
[00:07:22] Hala Taha: And are you calling out if people are buying on the spot? Are you saying Sherry just bought a course, are you calling out when people are buying or not really?
[00:07:29] Jason Fladlien: I used to do that kind of stuff. I don't know. Maybe it's worth doing now. I'm all about now the pain because I know if we can eliminate the pain, everybody will buy. And if we can eliminate the risk that goes along with that pain, then every single person on the webinar is going to buy. Some of these other things are useful and effective.
[00:07:46] And occasionally my business partner Will because he's like doing traffic control. I'm not directly reading the traffic, the chat anymore. He's picking and he's feeding it to me and he's clumping it and he's lumping it together. And we're communicating to [00:08:00] whole swaths of different people on the webinar, but occasionally also individually.
[00:08:05] Here's a great insight for everybody listening. The more ways in which we can look at a problem, the better we can solve that problem. So sometimes we are doing micro, specifically, hey, John had this of you are questioning sometimes were doing macro, where a lot of you are questioning how long it will take for you to get started. And we're framing it from that perspective.
[00:08:24] Or I'm closing you because I'm telling her a story, but it's really pointed towards you, but it's an indirect way for you to take in information as opposed to me telling you directly, right? There's overt communication and there's covert communication. There's the times where you push on people and you challenge them.
[00:08:40] And then there's the times where you are just loving on them. You run through all of them, ideally, throughout this whole process. And so we're doing all of that. We don't really do the social proof so much anymore because you can fake it. So customers tend to not believe it, even if you say it. I like things that are easy to demonstrate.
[00:08:57] So we'll occasionally do that. But mostly what it's all [00:09:00] about is the objection. And here's how it always plays out. First, it's money, which it never really is. But that's the first smoke screen that they throw up. I'd really like this, but it's too expensive. It's too much money. It's I don't have the money for this right now.
[00:09:13] 99 times. That's a lie. So you learn that's not truly the objection, but until you uproot that issue, you can't get past it. So we'll handle the price objection five or six or seven or eight or nine times. In six or seven or eight or nine different ways. Now we don't do it all at once because if you drill down on something, it gets too boring.
[00:09:33] So we have first address price. And then the second issue was always time, almost always time. I don't have the time to do this or how long will it take? And so we'll handle that when six, seven, eight, nine different ways. And then the real one, the almost always, the real objection is neither time nor price, it's always belief.
[00:09:51] I don't think I can do this. I'm deficient in this way. I'm limited in that way. I'm gonna fail. And that's where we really spend most of our time. [00:10:00] But we cycle. We like do a price objection, then we do a time objection, and then we do two beliefs. And then we do another price objection, then we do another time one, and then we do two more beliefs.
[00:10:09] And then we can do that forever. I could go on forever doing that. I'll give you a great example of one. I just made up this new clothes two weeks ago. I think it was, here's an issue that some consumers and some markets have. They will look at your offer. And then they will say, oh my god, look at everything that's here.
[00:10:25] There's a ton of stuff here. And they're initially excited, and then they're like, but wait, I gotta consume it all. Oh my god, that's gonna take a lot of effort. And they will feel very uncomfortable, if they don't consume all of your information. Even though they can't. It's gonna be too much, and it's not a good way of doing it.
[00:10:45] And it frustrates me because it's a limiting belief. The limiting belief is I have to consume all the information in order to be successful with this thing, which is not how real success works. Real success works as we consume only partial [00:11:00] amounts of information, and then we go out there and figure it out, but they think, and I got to consume it all, and if I don't, then I suck, I'm not good, I failed, I didn't follow through.
[00:11:10] Or they do consume it all, God forbid, and now they're more confused than they were when they started. I love these customers. They're walking meat shield full of contradictions, right? I have to help them navigate through that minefield in order for them not to cheat themselves out of something that they should buy.
[00:11:28] And so I will say to them, this is what I said the other day, just, and we freestyle these now on these closes sometimes. I'll say, tell me when you got a library card you didn't feel guilty that you didn't read every book in the library. And that's one of the ways in which we deal with that objection specifically, if that's one that's coming up.
[00:11:42] I used to deal with it this way, and I still do sometimes, it's if you went to a buffet, do you feel obligated to eat every type of food that's offered to you in the buffet, and drink every drink that's offered to you, and people are like, no, of course not that's what this course is like. It's done buffet style, and even if you only consume 10% of it at random, we put a [00:12:00] blindfold on you, spun you around, and you played pen the tail on the donkey, when it came to this content, I am confident. You will be able to succeed and move forward with this, and then later on if you want to go back and do it logically, you certainly can.
[00:12:12] These are beliefs, and again, I have two or three, I gave you three ways just to deal with that one stupid little tiny belief. But we do, we cycle through all of these, and then there's product specific objections too, right? Where it's, can I use it this way? Will I have access to it over here? I'm from, I'm international.
[00:12:29] Will it work for international folks, et cetera, et cetera. So we just hang in there and we just go through all of them.
[00:12:35] Hala Taha: I love that. And a key thing, Young and Profiters is you have to know what people are going to object. You've got to actually think through that and prepare your answers in advance. So go through all the possible things that people could object from your offer and make sure that you know the answers and then creatively integrated.
[00:12:50] So I love that. So a very important piece when it comes to webinars is to transform, not inform. I definitely made that mistake. I remember my first webinar was [00:13:00] just like a fire hose of information. It did well, but I think I could have done better had I just pulled it back and not scared people in terms of the information.
[00:13:07] So I'd love to hear your perspective.
[00:13:09] Jason Fladlien: You and me both, right? So it took me about two years to figure out that insight because we want to be of service. Like We want to give people a lot of information, and we have a lot of information to give. But usually, more information creates more conflict, it creates more overwhelm.
[00:13:26] So you're actually harming people, not helping them, and I learned this the hard way. This is why the more you tell somebody, the less they are likely to buy from you, when it comes to education alone. Education is not enough. And I, and then you're quoting me here, which I really appreciate. I, what a student you are.
[00:13:41] So kudos to you. I'm very impressed, right?
[00:13:44] Hala Taha: Thank you.
[00:13:45] Jason Fladlien: So transform, not inform. So seek to transform, not to merely inform. And so we are affected by two things. What we know and how we feel about what we know, to quote Jim Rohn. And 20% of it is what we know, and 80% of it is how we feel about what we know.
[00:13:59] So I have [00:14:00] to have this space in my webinars to set it up. So when I give you the insight, you're in the best emotional state you can be to take it and feel the most confident to use it, or at least feel the least unconfident, right? I want you to feel like even if you do everything wrong, you'll be okay if you follow this advice.
[00:14:20] And the setup and the payoff takes more time, than the actual information that you're giving, and you've got to have space for that. The other problem with doing this on a webinar is, people need to know what the outcome is. They need to know the time of day, not how to build a watch. And we need to step back and say, I really only need to teach one key insight.
[00:14:42] I gotta have one thing that at the end of the day, when they hear it, they can't go back to the old way of being. No matter even if they want to, they will reach for that lesser state of who they used to be, and it will no longer be there for them. They have to be better after hearing what I say. And [00:15:00] we've all had an experience of this, right?
[00:15:01] Like where there was something that happened or broke within us. And we said, never again, usually through pain or through challenge, we said, I will never operate that way again. And then you never did because whatever the pain is of doing something new is less than the pain of doing the same thing over and over again.
[00:15:18] So all of my webinars try to lead up to that key insight, to where no matter what limiting belief or self doubt that they have. They can no longer reach for it by the time our webinar is over with and so that's the one main point. Now, I usually need about three or four things to supplement. That four key elements.
[00:15:36] I really have one insight I'm going to give, four elements that build it up to support it, and that's it. If you look at my webinars, there's really only about ten, or five to ten, maybe fifteen minutes at most these days, of actual instruction. How to. That's it. And at first I used to feel very uncomfortable about that because this is other people do it similarly, [00:16:00] they teach you everything other than how to do it, right?
[00:16:03] They get you all dressed up and then they leave you with no place to go and then you have to buy the product. In order to know where to go or they'll even be more conniving, and they'll teach you steps one three and five, and then you got to buy steps two and four so useful but incomplete is the phrase that a seminar, pitch person once told me and it made me like get sick to my stomach.
[00:16:20] I'm like, there's gotta be a better way where we can empower customers and then still sell them, not disempower them, and then sell them or empower them and then not sell them, right? I used to feel bad about that because I felt I was taking something away from my customers. But then what I realized was, if I remove all the noise and the distraction, then and only then can my point land with the maximum amount of impact.
[00:16:44] And so when I teach how to on webinars, and it's only five to 10, it lands so much better and has so much more insight. Because there's an endless supply of free YouTube videos out there. People are watching more of them than ever before, yet people are still [00:17:00] struggling as much as they ever had to be successful.
[00:17:03] And that's because more information isn't the answer. The right information, prescribed in the right way, is the answer. A doctor doesn't say, hey, if one pill is good, take two. If two pills are really good, take three. Hell, just take the whole bottle, right? The effective amount of dosage required to help the patient.
[00:17:20] And it's less. As opposed to more, it's just the right amount and then more important than the information. It's setting it up so they're in the most conducive state of receptivity to hear the message. Real quickly, the whole thing, if you tell somebody who's overweight to lose weight, you say, it's really simple.
[00:17:37] It's just calories in, calories out, right? And you will not help anybody with that approach and that attitude. You will fail. The information is not the reason that they're struggling with their way. It's not their misunderstanding of what a calorie is that prevents them, right? It's psychological. It's emotional.
[00:17:54] There's a whole complex set of issues involved, that need to be unpacked and then need to be put [00:18:00] together again in new ways. That will make a transformational difference in that person's life. And so we need to spend more time on the psychology. And on the emotion and less time on the how to and the information.
[00:18:12] Hala Taha: Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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[00:27:31] This is amazing. Like such a great explanation. So basically what you're saying, have one key insight, then have a step by step process to underpin that insight. And that's it. Don't overwhelm them with too much information. Spend the rest of the time talking about their objections. So speaking of psychology and emotions, you talk about something called ecological checks.
[00:27:51] How do we do them? What are they?
[00:27:53] Jason Fladlien: So I'll give you the simplest ecological check. I was working with a client once and she had a fear of speaking in front of an audience. [00:28:00] I didn't know what caused it later on. I figured it out, but I didn't need to know. I was asking her, I said, okay, I'm going to be you.
[00:28:06] How do I know when to be afraid? And she says, what do you mean? I said if I'm going to speak on stage publicly, when do I know to be scared? This is an ecological check. I'm checking in with the ecology of the situation to know how to operate just like she's operating. It's hard. You got to tease this out of clients if you're doing it one on one.
[00:28:24] I say let me ask you this. Say we're having a dinner and there's six or seven people there. If an eighth person shows up, does that turn a private dinner into a public speaking opportunity? Or is it nine, or is it ten, or is it eleven, or is it twelve? Again, how do I know when it's public speaking, and then therefore how do I know that it's appropriate to be fearful here?
[00:28:42] And she told me an answer, and I'll never forget this, and she says, When I can no longer see everybody's face. And I thought, huh, yeah, I would be scared out of my mind too. If I was speaking in front of a thousand or 2000 people and needed to check in with every single, that would overwhelm me. I couldn't do that.
[00:28:58] No wonder she's afraid. [00:29:00] And she was using people's face as a way to determine whether what she was saying had value, et cetera, et cetera. So very quickly, we were able to associate other ways in which she could decide whether what she was saying was a value and whether she was safe or not. Other than having to look everybody in their eyes.
[00:29:15] And then right after that, like a month or two later, she sends me this picture. She's on stage massive audience. And these are like all women in the audience. She's a woman speaking to other women and women are the hardest people to speak to, especially if you're a woman. They are even more vicious to a public speaker in that circumstance.
[00:29:30] And she was just killing it and owning it. Now, later on, I discovered why she was afraid of public speaking. She came over to the United States, didn't know how to speak the language. When she was like nine years old, her parents just threw her in a public school and the kids would chase her and beat her and throw rocks at her.
[00:29:44] When she spoke, because she didn't know the language, right? But I didn't need to know what caused it. All I needed to know is ecologically check in to determine what's stopping her. What the limit is. And so the number one way to do that is how do you know when to [00:30:00] blank, right? So a friend of mine had his son likes to chew on his fingers.
[00:30:03] And I asked him, I go, how do you know which finger to chew on first? Nobody had ever asked him that question before, right? Instantaneous rapport. Everybody else is telling this kid why he shouldn't chew on his fingers, or they're trying to give him advice on how he could not chew on his fingers anymore.
[00:30:19] And I'm asking, I'm showing true interest in his model of reality, of how he sees the world. Nobody ever has done that instantaneous rapport. But even better still, that's when we can learn things. How do you know which one to chew on first? There's a whole process that you don't even realize you're running.
[00:30:35] It's an unconscious process. We bring consciousness to it. We can affect it, we can potentially change it. In fact, the logic that we worked out there was if you let your fingernails grow out longer, you got more to chew on. We stopped the impulse that I got to chew on it right away, right? We allow him to grow them out and then he can decide now whether he wants to chew on them or not, or if it makes sense, but that's how you get into an [00:31:00] ecological check customers all the time.
[00:31:02] Somebody says to me, this is a great close. They'll say, I need to think this over before I make a decision. And I ask them how much do you need to think over? And they'll be like, what do you mean? I'll be like, is it 52%? 41%? Like, how will you know when you've thought it over enough to make a decision?
[00:31:20] And you will discover almost always that they have never thought it over. I need to think it over really is code for saying I don't know what to do, and I'm scared because I don't know what to do, so I'm going to completely remove myself from the situation shut down. And then I'm not going to unfortunately grow, so I got to help them stop themselves from doing a fight or flight response in that instance, so it's an ecology check of like, how do you know when you've thought it over?
[00:31:45] How do you know it's too expensive? I can't tell you how many times I've told clients that. They say it's too much. How do you know it's too much? Compared to what? What makes you so confident that you know that it's too much money? Is it the most expensive thing you've ever bought in your life? [00:32:00] No, it's not, right?
[00:32:02] How do you know when you make a good purchasing decision? What is in common with the purchases that you've made, where you've always looked back on them and say, damn, that was a good purchasing decision. And then they'll tell you, and I was like, great, let's line it up. Does some or all of that also make sense for this purchase here today?
[00:32:17] So this is good stuff. I'm glad you're bringing this out.
[00:32:19] Hala Taha: This is so genius. So how do you do this from a one to many perspective? So you're a lot of the way you're talking about is one on one. How can you do this in a webinar, when you're speaking to hundreds of people?
[00:32:28] Jason Fladlien: Yes, great question. So we try to build out models, right?
[00:32:32] So if I know that to that market, there's going to be a huge pushback on money. Let's just say I'm targeting markets where we know economically, looking at the demographics, they have less disposable income than other markets. So I'll give you a great example of that, a specific we were selling in Brazil.
[00:32:47] So translating, localizing a product into Portuguese. And I know economically, they don't have the same type of situation that we would do if we're selling in the U. S. or other countries. So up [00:33:00] front, I know that's an issue. And so I will bring things up throughout the webinar and even in the introduction and such, talking about how evaluating decisions based upon superficialities may be significantly limiting towards you.
[00:33:13] If all you do is judge books by their covers, how many books are you going to miss out on? If you only judge things based upon the price tags associated with them, then you're going to be very limited. Do you buy only the cheapest shirts and only the cheapest shoes? Is that the only consideration that you make?
[00:33:31] And so we would spend time breaking down some of these things from a story basis or from an education basis. I might tell a story in that situation of the first time I ever made a major investment in my life. And this is a true story, right? I didn't have a credit card, that I could charge the product that I purchased on.
[00:33:49] It was a 2, 000 product and the bank only trusted me with a 500 credit limit. That's how poor I was, right? So what did I do? I asked my mentor at the time, the guy that I painted houses [00:34:00] for, right? If he would use his credit card, and then I would write him a check and I would pay him back that way. I didn't let my lack of financial resources limit my ability to invest in something that I knew was going to help me.
[00:34:15] And so that might be a story that I tell throughout the webinar, so the masses can hear that and understand that, regulate that, get it excited. But I've always found it's better to be very blunt and direct with the limitations, that I know my audience has and just flat out bring them up. I might even say in an introduction, say, if I think it makes sense to let them know that there's going to be an offer at the end. I might say something along the lines of at the end of this, we're going to make an offer.
[00:34:42] And for some of you, the price shock is going to be too much for you. And then you're going to shut down and you're not going to hear anything else that I say beyond that. It makes me sad because you will not be able to see the value to determine if it makes sense or not. But for the rest of you, hopefully the price tag shock will wear off enough.
[00:34:59] [00:35:00] And then we can determine if it makes sense for you. Regardless of what the price is. Cause if you're the right person for this, it's going to be more expensive for you not to buy this. But before we get into all of that first, let's yada, yada, yada, right?
[00:35:12] Hala Taha: There's so many psychological things going on with that.
[00:35:15] There's price anchoring. There's making people have, what they can have also. Feeling left out, right? People want to be like everybody else.
[00:35:23] Jason Fladlien: We got to bring a gun to this knife fight here. And here's why. And this is really important to understand. It took me a while to feel really comfortable with this.
[00:35:29] The easiest thing anybody can do is nothing. That's only useful to you in the very short term. Doing nothing repeatedly, will turn you into nothing. It's disaster, but you're always fighting against the alternative that every consumer has, which is to do nothing, be nothing, say nothing. So never spending money, zero energy involved in not purchasing your product, zero accountability, zero responsibility, right?
[00:35:57] Only temporarily safe, but [00:36:00] continuing to do nothing is the most unsafe behavior that they can do. So we're at war with the limiting factor that all of us are hardwired as human beings to have, which is to retreat and to do nothing and to shy away, and only survive at the expense of our true happiness.
[00:36:17] And so we have to bring a gun to that knife fight, as I said earlier, right? We have to bring every single ethical tool, that we can possibly muster to help the person that we know should buy the product. And they know they should buy the product to actually end up buying the product. And if you do all this right, you get 1 out of 10.
[00:36:34] So the other 9 who should buy your product still won't. And it still breaks my heart to this very day. But the 1 out of 10 who you otherwise might miss. Can make all the difference in the world. And I'll tell you one quick story here as we wrap. So I was at that Mastermind, the Driven Mastermind, and a guy named Mattson came up to me.
[00:36:53] I hadn't seen Mattson in many years. But Mattson sat on a webinar I did in 2013, and [00:37:00] he was in a position, and I think Mattson was already a grandfather at the time, and his dad, he had to go to his dad, he didn't have the finances in place to invest in the offer that I was making, so he went to his dad and his brother, and they all went in business together, and they spent as much money as they could.
[00:37:18] And he had, and that's a humbling experience to be, a grandfather and still going to your own father saying, dad, I need some money, very humbling experience, but he did it anyway, because it made sense to them. He saw it, he saw the opportunity and he wanted to make a go at it. And I didn't disqualify him.
[00:37:34] And so what had happened was. Matson ended up with his brother launching a line of products that are now distributed in Walmart, they're distributed in CVS, they're distributed in PetSmart, and a whole variety of other places, and I just saw him, hadn't saw him in years. I never knew what happened to the guy, but I just saw him a couple weeks back, and he's had sold his business, and I got to imagine it was like a nine figure exit probably.
[00:37:57] Completely changed this dude's whole [00:38:00] life and trajectory because he sat on a webinar, that I had and I refused to let him settle for what I knew was less than what he was capable of. And it just completely changed his life and now he's in that audience, and now I can use him as an example what I'm teaching to everybody.
[00:38:15] It just nothing succeeds like success. And so that's what I look at that's at stake. And I know for every Mattson that I get, I miss others. That could have been Mattson because no matter what I can do. I'm swimming upstream against the general tendency is to retreat and to be lesser than you can be because it's safer in the short term.
[00:38:34] So hopefully these are motivational words to those of you listening right now. And by the way, your customers then don't care if you have this, they don't care if you're young or they or if you're old, if you're black or if you're white or any other color, whether you're educated or uneducated, right? Who you were yesterday, right?
[00:38:51] What they care about is they see that you care about them, and you also are showing that you won't give up on them and that you understand them. And there are more [00:39:00] fortunes to be made with that than any other technique that I could teach you.
[00:39:04] Hala Taha: And I love what you're saying because it's so true. A lot of people think that sales is manipulation, but when you have a really good offer, and you know that it works and you're getting feedback that it works.
[00:39:15] You don't feel bad to use these sales techniques because it's ultimately in the best interest of the customer. So Jason, I want to be respectful of your time. You did such a great job. I learned so much. I can't wait to dive into all your material. We end the show with two last questions for all of our guests.
[00:39:28] The first one is what is one actionable thing our Young and Profiters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?
[00:39:35] Jason Fladlien: Ooh, that's a good one, right? So fail fast in ways that can't bring you harm. So success isn't 10, 000 hours. Success is 10, 000 failures. So our goal is to fail 10, 000 ways where each time we fail, we move a step forward.
[00:39:48] So find somebody you can be of service of as quickly as possible and then start serving them and then learn from that and trade up.
[00:39:56] Hala Taha: I love that. And what is your secret to profiting in life? And this can be beyond [00:40:00] just financial.
[00:40:01] Jason Fladlien: That's a good one, right? Most of my life, for my first 35 years, I'm 40 years old, just turned 40 a couple of weeks ago.
[00:40:07] The first 35 years of my life, I spent trying to prove my worth by being successful. The problem with that is, it's a hole in a bucket. No amount of money that you put into that bucket will fill that hole. So the second half of my life here, as I turned 40 in the last five years is the start of that.
[00:40:27] So I got a jumpstart, so I'm a little ahead. Is how do I feel worthwhile regardless of any external successes, that come my way so as a human being as a person just being me the best most authentic me, that I can be that's the goal. I mean whether I saw 100 million or a billion dollars or whether I never sell another damn dollar, again how can I be totally okay with who I am as a spirit not just as a materialist, or not just as somebody whose worth is tied up on some externalities. That you can't ultimately control.
[00:40:58] And so I suggest the rest of you, [00:41:00] as well, consider some of that. No amount of this, what we talked about today, will heal that. So I would rather you be happy and whole and authentic and do okay in business, than to be the best in business but still feel hollow and empty inside. Now, it's a balancing act, right?
[00:41:16] It's not one or the other, it's usually a combination of the two, but all of one and none of the other is a very dangerous path, and I know because I walked down that path and I'm so fortunate, that I know better these days because I can take the tools that I learned from that path, and invest them on this new journey that I'm on.
[00:41:35] Hala Taha: I love that. That's beautiful. Jason, thank you so much. Where can our listeners learn more about you and everything that you do?
[00:41:40] Jason Fladlien: The happiest that you could make me is to go to Amazon and buy my book. It's called One to Many. One To Many. It's my book on webinars, specifically step by step, all the framework broken down on how you could create a webinar.
[00:41:54] Hala Taha: Guys, I read it. It's incredible. I'm going to put it in the show notes so you guys have the link. Jason, thank you so much for all of your [00:42:00] time.
[00:42:00] Jason Fladlien: Oh, you're most welcome. This is a great podcast.
[00:42:08] Hala Taha: Young and Profiters. This concludes part two of our interview with Jason Fladlien. Man, this guy is incredible. I just loved this interview. I love learning about sales, about marketing, about webinars, psychology, all this stuff that Jason is so good at. I am obsessed with and that's why I tried to keep him on as long as possible and get all this wisdom from him.
[00:42:33] And so funny enough, I had a webinar this morning and I actually implemented a lot of this stuff that I learned in this interview in this webinar. I listened back to this interview twice and I took copious notes. And so basically I'm going to just read you guys my copious notes. Jason said, you don't start building trust with people, until hour three of your webinar and that most webinars are four hours long.
[00:42:53] Now this baffled me because all my webinars were like an hour and a half max. And so my webinars apparently were way too [00:43:00] short. You also want to wait to the very end of your webinar to solicit your offer. This also was news to me. I was soliciting in the middle. I didn't realize how long it would take to earn their trust and that you really should wait to the end of the webinar.
[00:43:12] And I guess it makes sense because you're building up the value. You're building up the currency with them to then make a bigger ask. So it makes sense that at the end you make your ask and you just keep giving value, and then make your ask. Plus, if you wait to the end of your webinar to give your offer, that gives you more time to transform your audience.
[00:43:31] You want them to feel like they learned something really valuable. But just make sure you don't overload them with information. Too much information just overwhelms people and it keeps them from taking action. You want to transform, not inform. Jason said, more information isn't the answer. The right information prescribed in the right way is the answer.
[00:43:50] Keep your presentation to 90 minutes of learning content and the rest of the time should be spent handling objections and especially the objection of price, which Jason says to call out [00:44:00] several times. Jason says the most common objections are money and time, but really those objections are an excuse.
[00:44:06] It's usually a belief that is preventing somebody from buying your product. We also talked about ecological checks. If somebody says they need to think it over, you can say, how much do you need to think it over? Or if they say it's too expensive, ask, how do you know it's too much? And you can do this in mass by addressing objections proactively, indirectly, and creatively during a webinar.
[00:44:27] Some of you guys may be thinking it's too expensive, but how do you know it's too expensive? So get them to think through their decision making and if they're really thinking at all or using it as an excuse. Jason says we gotta bring a gun to the knife fight. He gave us all the ammo we need and we shouldn't feel guilty about using this stuff.
[00:44:45] If you know your product helps people do the thing you say it will do. It's in your customer's best interest for you to convince them to just not do nothing. The easiest thing that anybody can do is nothing and make no change and never spend any money, never have any accountability or [00:45:00] responsibility.
[00:45:00] So bring a gun to the knife fight. Have all your ammo ready by listening to Young and Profiting podcast and experts like the OG webinar guru, Jason Fladlien. Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting podcast. I love my listeners. I appreciate you guys so much for tuning in to Young and Profiting podcast day in and day out.
[00:45:20] If you listen, learn, and profited, share this episode with your friends or family. And drop a five star review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. If you like watching your podcast videos, you can find us on YouTube. And you can also find me on Instagram @yapwithhala or LinkedIn by searching my name. It's Hala Taha.
[00:45:36] Shout out to my YAP team. You guys are working so hard behind the scenes. Appreciate all you do. This is your host, Hala Taha, signing off.
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