John Lee Dumas: Productivity Hacks to Work Smarter, Not Harder | E96


Get Fired Up with John Lee Dumas!

In this week’s episode, we are talking with John Lee Dumas, founder and host of the Entrepreneurs on Fire podcast, interviewing big names like Seth Godin, Barbara Corcoran, Gary Vee, and more. JLD and his podcast have helped millions of people and revolutionized the podcasting space by putting out daily podcast episodes for nearly 5.5 years. To this day, he is all about delivering inspiration and being transparent about his journey.

In this episode, we chat about JLD’s beginnings, what led him to starting his podcast, and how he decided he would put out daily episodes. We’ll then talk more about his work habits and productivity hacks, the methodology of batching, and his tips for people looking to create passive income as well as grow their podcast.

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Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts:


01:17 – Pulse on How JLD’s Podcast is Doing

03:58 – Why JLD Decided to Start His Podcast

07:06 – The Backstory of Creating a Daily Podcast

09:30 – JLD’s Podcast Prep

12:22 – How JLD Decided to Do Podcast Full-Time

14:56 – The Process of Batching

18:23 – Importance of When You Work

21:42 – JLD’s New Book

24:00 – How JLD Grew His Podcast So Quickly

29:06 – Passive Income Philosophy

32:53 – Advice for Podcasters in 2020

36:11 – JLD’s Secret to Profiting in Life

Mentioned in the Episode:

JLD’s Podcast:

JLD’s Website:

JLD’s Book:

JLD’s Instagram:

Hala Taha: [00:00:00] You're listening to YAP, young and profiting podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Hala Taha. And on young and profiting podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life.

No matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of ex FBI agents, real estate moguls. Self-made billionaire.

CEOs and best-selling authors our subject matter ranges from enhancing in productivity, how to gain, influence the art of entrepreneurship and more if you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at young [00:01:00] and profiting podcast this week on YAP.

We're chatting with John Lee Dumas host of the award-winning podcast entrepreneurs on fire. One of the most popular podcasts in history JLD has interviewed thousands of entrepreneurs and has big names under his belt. Like Seth Godin, Barbara Corcoran, Gary V, and more JLD has been podcasting since 2012.

And he revolutionized the podcasting space by launching the first ever daily podcast and the entrepreneurship category over the years, his podcast has helped millions of people are what he calls his fire nation. Become better entrepreneurs. And through his journal sales courses and affiliate marketing JLD has monetized his entrepreneurs on fire podcast and brand to generate nearly $19 million today.

And I know the exact figure because he releases his income statements to the public as a tool to help entrepreneurs. In this episode, we chat about JLD's beginnings, [00:02:00] what led him to start a podcast? And how he decided he would disrupt the podcasting world with daily episodes. We'll then talk more about his productivity hacks, batching his secret to daily podcast episodes and his tips for creating passive income and growing a podcast.

Hey John, welcome to young and profiting podcast.

John Lee Dumas: Hala. I am fired up to be here. I can't wait to chat.

Hala Taha: Yeah, me too. I've been following your journey. I know you've been doing this since 2012. We've interviewed a lot of the same people and I often listened to your interviews to study for my guests. So it's just so surreal to actually have you here as somebody who I look up to as a podcaster.

So just so thankful to have 40 minutes of your time. And I'm sure my listeners are really excited, too.

John Lee Dumas: I received those kinds of words, much appreciated and, congratulations, by the way, I did hear you're going to be featured on podcasts magazine in January. So that's a fantastic accomplishment not to mention everything else you've done.
So it's just great to [00:03:00] see, people still coming into the podcast in space, doing fantastic things like yourself. Big. Congrats.

Hala Taha: Yeah. So tell me about your stats today, because I was trying to track down what are your like stats today? I know that you get over a million downloads per month.

You've had over 2,700 episodes, but I feel like those are probably outdated already. So tell me in your own words, like how's your podcast entrepreneurs on fire doing today.

John Lee Dumas: It's on fire Hala. I will say I launched back in 2012, like you mentioned. We're approaching 3000 episodes, which is just fantastic. Last month was our biggest month ever.

We had over 1.4 million listens during the month. So it's just been a fantastic journey. It's really just one of those. Slow, but steady, growth. It was just one of these things. I didn't just snap my fingers in 2012 and I had a million listens a month. Like it's been a slow, steady growth and, just really being consistent.

And, as I entered 2021, I'm going to five episodes per week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So I'll be kicking out a [00:04:00] lot of great content in 2021 and it's going to be a great year.

Hala Taha: That's amazing. I can't even imagine having that many downloads per month, I get a hundred thousand downloads per month and I'm like, wow, I'm killing it.

You're getting tons of downloads for month. It's


John Lee Dumas: But you're killing it. You're killing it. Again, I'd like to be able to match up where you're at on your journey compared to where I was. And I'm sure, you're either ahead of me or right there where I was. Cause it is a process to grow your audience and you're doing fantastic things on LinkedIn.

You're doing great things in other areas. For me, I just want to pass along to everybody that's listening right now is never compare yourself to anybody except yourself. Yesterday, if you're winning that comparison of you yesterday, then you're winning at life and it's not every day, by the way, you're going to win that comparison.

And that's fine. But if you're winning that comparison more days than not, you will win over time. Because if you compare yourself to other individuals who are years ahead of you on the journey or years behind you, and they're just having killer success, [00:05:00] for some reason, you will despair compare and despair is real.

Hala Taha: Yeah, good advice. I won't I'll take that heat. You've been doing it six years longer than me, so I've got a little bit of ways to catch up, right? So like I said, you've been doing this since 2012 and when it comes to podcasting, you are really like best in class. Your website is best in class.

Your processes are best in class. The way you organize your show is best in class. The way you prepare your guests is best in class, you are a legend when it comes to this space, everybody respects you in this space. So I know that it always wasn't like this. You actually, weren't a natural entrepreneur, right? And you're known as this like big entrepreneur now, but actually you didn't start that way.

You had a very traditional career. And when you were 26 to 32, I heard you say in the past that it was the worst time in your life. So tell me. Why that was the worst time in your life? What were you going through share with the listeners? What that was like?
John Lee Dumas: Yes. So I had a great life, I spent the first 18 years of my [00:06:00] life in Maine in a very small town in great high school experience, went to college on an army scholarship and in Rhode Island.

So I loved my college experience. And then from 22 to 26, I was an officer in the army, which how does ups and downs? Because I spent some time in Iraq. So during a war. So that was pretty intense for obvious reasons. And then when I left the military, From 26 to 32 those years that you mentioned, I called them my six years of struggle because that's what I was really trying to find what the rest of my life was going to look like.

Like what was it going to be law school? No, I dropped out it wasn't gonna be corporate finance. No, I quit. After a year, wasn't gonna be commercial real estate, residential real estate. And none of it really clicked for various reasons. And I was struggling as a result, but at 32 years old, I did have an idea to launch a daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs, and nobody was doing anything close to that back then.

So the day that I launched it was the best daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It was [00:07:00] the worst daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It was the only daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. And that's one of my biggest pieces of advice to people today. How can you be the only cause you're not going to be good when you start.

Nobody's good. When they start something new. So how can you be the only, just like back in the nineties, I don't even know if you can remember this hall, but they used to be one blockbuster in town. So if you wanted to run a movie, you had to go to that blockbuster. They were the only game in town. That's why they won until of course Netflix destroyed them.

But the thing is. How can you in your life be the only, I was the only daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. So even though I wasn't good and I wasn't good, I was the only option for people. So I just brought great guests on. And I said, as few of words as possible, I stepped out of the way and I let Seth Godin, Tim Ferriss, Gary Vaynerchuk.

I let them provide the value. And then I just shift the product and I got a little bit better every single day. And Hala, I was doing [00:08:00] seven days a week, 365 a year for 2000 days in a row for five and a half years. That's all I got. Good.

Hala Taha: Yeah. It was all about putting in those reps. I love that. And I think you call that unique value differentiator.
UVD right. I've heard you talk about that before. So that's really cool. It's very important to have a niche. It's very important to stand out, be different. That's what you did with your daily show, but you actually had some doubters. You had a mentor, her name was Jamie Masters, right? And you actually hired a mentor to prepare for your podcasting journey.

You decided you weren't going to do it alone. You were going to try to learn from someone who's already been down that path and has done it successfully. So you invested in yourself and you got a mentor, but this mentor who has been in this space and you really respected her, she told you. Hey, a daily show is not possible.

You're never, it's never going to happen. It's never going to work. You're going to exhaust yourself. You're never going to be able to research. So how did you distill good feedback from bad feedback? Because I'm sure she gave you so much good advice, but then you stuck to your [00:09:00] gut when it came to a daily show.

Tell me about


John Lee Dumas: Yeah. So 95% of what Jamie told me I listened to because I wanted it to be a successful business podcast. Host. She was a successful business podcast. Host. She'd been running her podcast, the eventual millionaire. For over a year at that point. And she had a lot of great connections, a lot of great knowledge.

She had made a lot of mistakes where she was able to help me avoid. She'd had a lot of successes that she was able to really guide me towards. And the reality was. She did not think a daily show was possible for a number of reasons, but her reasons just really didn't make sense to me. She said John is just so much hard work.

It's going to, you're going to be so busy and I'm like, I know it is, but this is what I've committed to. So why would I not want to work hard? And then she said, and there's just. You got to find gases. There's not that many successful entrepreneurs out there. And I knew that wasn't true. I knew that there was a countless amount.

And in fact, as you and I are sitting here today, I get over 400 pitches every single month for [00:10:00] entrepreneurs trying to get on my show. And by the way, most of them are successful, but I just don't have room for everybody. And it's just that's never been the case. So in my gut, in my heart, I knew. That I was not going to be good when I started, so I had to be different when I started.

And I also had to put in the reps, like you mentioned, it's so important, so I could actually get good doing one show per week. Just doing 52 per year, come on. I'm not going to get good at practicing once per week. Is there an NBA basketball player that's ever made the pros by practicing one day per week?

Of course not. You do it every single day. You put in those reps. And so I knew Jamie was wrong there, but I also love the fact that she said that, cause I said man, if one of the top business podcasters thinks it can't be done. And I figured out a way to do it. That's the opportunity.

Hala Taha: Yeah, I love how that fired you up instead of deterring you that's like such a great, unique quality.

Cause a lot of people would just, take that advice and kind of think of another idea, but it's great that [00:11:00] you actually, pushed through. And now you're one of the biggest podcasts out there. So tell me about this. I know that you batch your podcasts. We're going to get into your productivity hacks in a bed, but how do you end up studying for that many podcasts?
Do you prep for your podcasts or is it just on the fly? What's your process for prepping for each one of these

John Lee Dumas: Listen, I love that you do prep. You told me before you even started the interview that like you've done your research. You've got some great questions coming for me. I think that's fantastic.

That's your style? And I respect it. I think it's a great philosophy. It's just not my style. I don't like to prep. I don't want to prep. And one thing that I like by the way is going into interviews, curious, not having the curse of knowledge, because for me, I know that when I go into an interview kind of clueless and curious, I'm going to ask the questions that I know my listeners have because I have the questions.

I don't know. I don't have that curse of knowledge. So a lot of times. Me doing prep. If I had done it would have made for a better [00:12:00] interview for sure. But sometimes because I don't do prep, I'm asking questions that I know my listeners have. And one of the biggest compliments that I get from my listeners that I love is they say, man, John, it just seems like you're always asking the question that I have when I'm listening to the show.

And I'm like, Yes, that's my goal because my listeners can't raise their hands in the audience and ask questions. So I need to be the person that's asking questions for them, because listen, I've been running a multi-million dollar business for eight years now. I'm in a different place than most of my listeners.

So I don't really have the same questions likely that they have because they haven't yet gotten to my level of success, but it's still my job as the host to be having the questions answered that they have brewing in their mind as they're listening to that content. So I go in clean slate. No zero prep and I just do my best.

And also I think makes me better on my feet too. Cause I'm always having to think. I don't have the super, super prepped show though. Like I can rely [00:13:00] on and go back to which again, I love shows that are super prepped. I've been on a ton. I think they're fantastic. Just not me and not my style.

And I think that's a great lesson for everybody. Listening is like, what's your style. Maybe you want to be that super prepper. Maybe you want to have zero prep or maybe you want to be somewhere in between. And guess what? It's your show? It's your rule?

Hala Taha: Yeah, I totally agree. It's so funny. We are like polar opposites then, because we do so much research at younger profiting podcasts, but I have clients like you, who also just don't really like to do research and prefer it.

It's really up to every one style, like you said. So let's go back to when you first started. Becoming an entrepreneur. When you were going to make that decision, you decided you were going to do this daily show. You were going to enter the market with something completely different. And at the time I think you were in real estate.

And so you had a very traditional background. I'm sure there was a lot of naysayers, whether it was like your family, your friends, maybe internally, you had some doubts, like what made you decide to be an entrepreneur and not start this as a side [00:14:00] hustle? That's one of my biggest questions for you because a lot of people start a podcast on this side.

Because it's very uncertain, especially in 2012, nobody knew that you could make money off the podcasts. So how did you decide, like I'm just going to do this 100% in and become an entrepreneur.

John Lee Dumas: I think this does go back to know thyself and Hala, I'm just going to, again, reveal something about myself that, a lot of my listeners now, but I'm just an all or nothing kind of person.

Like to me, I'm not the kind of person that just dips my toes in the water and it's okay, I guess the temperature feels good. I'm either just going to jump in to the water or I'm just not going to do it. It's like literally one of the two. And that was my attitude with entrepreneurship. And luckily, because of my ROTC army scholarship in college, I had no debt.

Luckily because of my four years as an officer in the army, I had some decent savings. I had six figures worth of savings. And single guy didn't have much overhead. I could live on that for a significant amount of time. So I had the opportunity to literally make no [00:15:00] money for 18 months, 24 months. Like I had that, I didn't want that.

I didn't want to make no money for 24 months, but if the worst case happens, I could still be getting by on that because of how I set myself up financially up to that point at 32 years old. And I said, I could just dip my toe in and do one episode per week or maybe one per month, but I'm not going to get good at podcasting doing that, going back to our practicing and putting in the reps a conversation.

And that's just not my personality. I'm either going to go all in. It's going to be all that I do. And I was going to be all consuming. Or I'm out, I've been that way in my relationships. They're like all in a relationship or I'm out, we're either like together or we're not, and for me, like with sports they're all into this new sport.

Like for me right now, it's pickleball, I'm all in the pickleball or I'm not, it's like one of the two. And to me, that's just my personality and I want to leverage that.

Hala Taha: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So like I mentioned earlier, you're known as the prince of podcasting, [00:16:00] but you're also the prince of productivity in my mind because you're able to put out this daily show and you're able to do it in a way where I've heard you say that you don't work that much.

You say, everybody thinks you're super busy, but you actually aren't really. Working as much as people think you are. So talk to us about batching, how you batch your episodes, why you do that and the power of batching

John Lee Dumas: you have done your research. You're basically taking the words out of my mouth and these scenarios because it is true.

I honestly don't work that hard now. There is an asterick there because I work unbelievably hard three or four days per month. Like I'm putting in long days and this happens to be one of them, by the way, you are one of 20 interviews I'm doing today. This is a very hardworking, long day. I'm doing more interviews today than most people are going to do this year period.

But that's how I operate. I'm either all in or I'm out. And so that's the batching thing. I'm batching interviews on other [00:17:00] shows today just like last week was my interviews for entrepreneurs on fire. I did eight back to back interviews in one day for entrepreneurs on fire. I love it. It fits my personality.

Cause Hala, I wake up in the morning and I say, today is entrepreneurs on fire day. It is my Superbowl. I'm from new England. So I love the Patriots. I love Tom Brady. Tom Brady wakes up on Sundays and he's like today. Is my Superbowl. I'm going out and I'm playing a football game. I'm giving it everything I got.

And that's my attitude on my interview. Batch days, I wake up and every interview I'm giving it everything I've got, because guess what? It's my one super bowl. And then I'm going to have two, three, sometimes four weeks. Before I do another one of those days. So it's not like I'm doing those days back to back because my head would explode.

I pop off because it is a lot of work. It is a lot of mental bandwidth and energy, and it's tough and it's, I'm zonked by the end of the day, but I've left it [00:18:00] all on the table. And then that opens me up to relax the following day or the following week to focus on other things, to just keep my energy in check and balance like that.

So to me, bashing is everything because it gets a gained zone. I crushed the eight interviews and then then I turn off. If I had to do one every single day, There'll be days where I'm just like, oh, I just don't feel like turning on all my equipment and like getting everything all set up. And I just don't feel like doing one interview today.

Like I'll have days like that for sure. And I'm glad I don't do interviews those days, but when it's my super bowl, one day, I've got to commit to, and again, at most two days per month for my entrepreneurs on fire interviews, ma'am, I am 100% on all the time for those days.

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It's so interesting. And it goes back to the fact that you didn't do it as a side hustle, because if you did it as a side hustle, you wouldn't be able to just dedicate a full day towards [00:20:00] batching. That's the situation that I'm in. I've been doing this as a side hustle for two years, just now transitioning out of my job at Disney streaming.

And I just can't imagine the growth that I would have had if I did this full time, and so it's just so incredible and like the way that you've structured, it makes so much sense. And you probably just have such a fulfilling life. Because you get to do everything that you love and still work on something that you love, but in a very super productive way.

Something else that I've heard you say before in the past, is that your first hour of your day, you feel like the most mentally productive. So talk to me about, like, why is it important to think about when you do your work and how did you figure out that your first hour of your day is the most important when it comes to your productivity?

John Lee Dumas: Yeah, listen. A lot of people wake up and it's all about OPP other people's problems. They jump on email. And it's about people wanting this from them, wanting that from them, needing this, they jump on social media and it's other people's problems. Other [00:21:00] people's outrage, other people's anger. And they do all of those things first, like this, the first thing they get into.

And then by the time they finally shift back to what they should actually be working on and what they should be doing, like the content that they should be creating their zonked, because their has been like getting pinged by all these help me hate me hate me. Hate me. Love me.

Love me. Love me. And it just never works. And they're just like, oh, I don't have any energy for my own stuff right now. So I'll do it tomorrow. And then tomorrow is a repeat of today and you never get anything unique or special done. You don't build anything meaningful. So I actually wrote my first traditionally published book in 2020.

And I knew that if it was going to be a great book, that I was going to dedicate the first two hours of every day to nothing else except writing that book. So I woke up in the morning, my phone's in airplane mode. It stayed in airplane mode. I came into my office here. I brewed a cup of coffee. I made some tea.

I did my thing. I hydrated, but then boom, I turn my computer [00:22:00] on and nothing came on except my word document. And I wrote for two hours and not two hours straight by the way. Cause I'm a big believer in sprints. So for me, I've just found out over time. That 42 minutes is really a great time for me to work.

So I like to work for 42 minutes. I set a timer and it's called the Pomodoro method, by the way. And for those 42 minutes, I had zero distractions. 42 minutes works for me because I know that I can get a lot done in those 42 minutes, but it doesn't seem like it's this long timeframe, this daunting. So if I knock it out 42 minutes, the timer's going and then the timer goes off.

I stopped. I take 18 minutes, the remainder of that hour, the next 18 minutes. And I relax, I might do some stretching, do some meditation, do some breathing exercises. And then my next 42 minutes sprint starts. And then I'm done for the day writing for that book. I wouldn't let myself to any more writing, just those 2 42 minute blocks.

It took a total of two [00:23:00] hours every day. That's it. And over six months I wrote 71,000 words, 273 pages. My book was finished ahead of schedule because I committed to that and as great because I gave my best, most uncluttered, most energized time of my day. To the book writing process and I'm convinced, that's why I beat my timeline.

There's a great book. And I got everything accomplished that I wanted to because I dedicated that portion of my day, the best part of my day to that process.

Hala Taha: That's amazing. And so this is not one of your journals, right? Did this book come out already?

John Lee Dumas: So the book is available for pre-order and just knowing how amazing and big of a following you have.

I would love to talk about it really quickly. So over 3000 interviews, I've done to date. Now I've interviewed people for thousands and thousands of communicative hours, and I've taken [00:24:00] all of those successful entrepreneurial tactics, strategies, stories. And I boiled it down into 17 steps, 17 steps. That is a roadmap to uncommon success.

And I've titled the book, the common path to uncommon success. And it is a 17 step roadmap to financial freedom and fulfillment period. End of story. I'm a little controversial here, but I believe that it's if you can't find your version of uncommon success after reading this. You should not be an entrepreneur, go do something else.

And nothing's wrong with not being an entrepreneur. Not everybody should be. And this book will tell you and show you if you have what it takes or not. And it's 17 clear steps and was pretty cool hall. As I brought in 17 entrepreneurs to share how they use each step in their journey as well. So it's a very impactful, amazing book pre-orders are available right now.

We have sec bonuses that come [00:25:00] with it like hundreds and hundreds of dollars of real value and bonuses. If you pre-order. And these are real dollar amounts. We're going to ship all three of my journals to your door as a pre-order bonus. These are 39 39 and $49 journals. So you can buy in an Amazon right now.

This is real value and the other four bonuses are crazy good as well. So anybody that wants to learn more visit, The pre-orders are there the book buy options are there. We've made this a no brainer.

Hala Taha: Amazing, so exciting. And I can vouch that everybody loves his journals super highly rated.

So if you can get that out as a bonus, that's amazing. So you have definitely achieved uncommon success. When you started your podcast after 13 months, you had already hit a hundred K in revenue. Pretty much unheard of. It's crazy. And so I want to understand what was that growth like for you as a podcaster?

What was it [00:26:00] like when you first started? When did you start getting huge download numbers? Was there some sort of event that triggered that? Or was it just supernatural? How did you promote it? Like how did you end up getting the downloads that you do? And then how did you first start to generate money?

What was your monetization journey like?

John Lee Dumas: So the

first 12 months were not pretty monetization wise, like $27,000. It was like our total revenue over 12 months, which isn't terrible, but it's not awesome either. And it was really month 13, the one that you mentioned where we actually had our first six figure month, and that was six figures of net profits.

So just over a hundred thousand dollars and I am very proud to say that. We've now published 87 income reports every month for the last 87 months. So for 87 months in a row, we've had a net profit of over a hundred thousand dollars every single month. Fantastic. As far as like consistency, we bringing in the revenue in which of [00:27:00] course leads back to the fact that we are providing massive value to a lot of people.

That's, what's resulting in the a hundred thousand dollars of net profit or more every single month. So at first, again, I was like, I'm just going to create a daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs and. I'll let my audience tell me what the best path to monetize is. And so I kept asking them, what are your biggest struggles?

What are your biggest obstacles? So I could create solutions for them in the form of products and services and communities, and pretty quickly my, and again, by quickly, I mean over 12 months, my audience told me, yeah, We'd love to be part of a mastermind. So I created fire nation elites, which was $150 per month mastermind per person per month.

And we had a hundred people join, so that was five figures of monthly revenue. The day that we opened it up. And again, that was not month one that was deep into our year of podcasting. Also people were asking for me to coach them one-on-one so I was getting some one-on-one coaching revenue.

[00:28:00] People were asking how to podcast. So we launched Podcaster's paradise, which is now the biggest podcasting course in community in the world. We've generated over $7 million to date in revenue. Just from Podcaster's paradise. And we continue to bring in people every single day into that course, people who want to learn how to create and grow and monetize their podcasts.

And again, that was just me not saying, oh, I should create a podcasting course. It was me saying, Hala, what are you struggling with? John, I'd love to start a podcast and I don't know how to do it. And I was like, oh wow, I've got 10 people ask me that question. Let me create a solution for them and so on and so forth.

And that's been, the evolution of our podcast is anchoring on those, for 2000 episodes in a row, those daily episodes. Now we're at four days per week and actually in 2021, we're bubbling it up to five days per week, but creating massive value for free to my audience, asking them what their biggest struggle was.

And then creating the solution for their struggles. [00:29:00]

Hala Taha: Yeah, that's so cool. And it wasn't about the vanity metrics, from what you're saying, it wasn't CPM sponsorship deals or anything like that. It was totally about having a connection with your audience and having them trust you enough to buy from you.

And that's really how you generated money. And it's so interesting to me. So for me, I generate money off my podcast. I started a podcast marketing agency, so I have all these top podcasts. Actually going to get interviewed by Jason Waller, who's my client. And so I help them get guests, prepare for their shows, do their LinkedIn marketing, their Instagram, marketing, their video, marketing, all that kind of stuff.

And that's how I've been able to generate like big dollars for all these top podcasts or celebrities. And you did it a totally different way. So it's just so cool that there's so many avenues to monetize, like how you build money on your podcast or build a business around it, I should say so.

John Lee Dumas: Yeah. And by the way, Fantastic. And it was actually one that I tried back in 2013, but it was too early [00:30:00] then, like it just, there just wasn't enough interest in the podcasting space. And then I had to find other ways to monetize. And then, by the time it became something that was viable, which is what you're doing now, I just have other focuses and other income streams that I don't want to add that to my plate, but that's just a great way of, sharing with everybody watching and listening.

Timing can be so important too. Like I tried things that were awesome ideas. It was just the wrong time for them. I was too early or in some cases I was too late. And for you, your timing was perfect.

Hala Taha: Yeah. That's so interesting. So one other thing that I want to talk about is the fact that you're amazing at passive income.

You're just so good at it. Whether it's affiliate marketing, whether it's, you partnered with, I think his name is Mark for And basically what I heard is that you do a 45 minute webinar each month, and that's all you do for that business. Basically. You just help bring in the leads doing that webinar.

And so there's so many different [00:31:00] examples of you making money without doing too much work. And I'm jealous of you because a marketing agency is a lot of work and I'm sure you basically finish your book. It's off to the races. You finish your course and then people just keep buying it. So what's your philosophy on that?

And how can people like learn from you in terms of thinking about ways to make money without the daily grind and work that it takes to make money typically?

John Lee Dumas: I always ask the question. Number one, like, how does this scale, how could I potentially leverage this? Maybe not right away, because I've got to put in the initial work and the initial grinds, but what would this look like?

If it could scale it, I could leverage this. And then another great example that you haven't mentioned because you brought up a couple of great examples, but is me realizing that pay my audience. Loves click funnels. They need click funnels cause it's a great software and you should be using it to create funnels and landing pages and webinar registrations and all this stuff.

And we use it. We've used it for years. So I said how would I create [00:32:00] a free course? That's going to be like for four video tutorials that I call a funnel on fire. And I just teach people how to create a funnel that converts. And then at the end of it, I just say, oh, by the way, hope you enjoyed this free course.

If you want to build your own funnel, I use Click Funnels. So I recommend it. Here's my affiliate link and Hala we've generated over $1.4 million in revenue just by promoting ClickFunnels. And so at the end of my podcast, every five or six episodes, I have rotating calls to action. So every five or six episodes, one of those rotating calls to action will be, Hey, if you want to learn how to create a funnel that actually converts, I have a free course visit funnel on

People will go there. And again, I created that course years ago. I haven't touched it since it's just an evergreen valuable course on the idea of funnels and people will go through that course. They'll build up reciprocity towards me because I'm giving them free value through this training. That's just for video tutorials.[00:33:00]

And then when I asked them to join click funnels through my affiliate link. Those that want to join ClickFunnels, use my affiliate link because again, the reciprocity is there. And so now, I'm getting checks from ClickFunnels for 10, $15,000 a month. And I have for years and years, because of the clients that I send them.

Hala Taha: It's

amazing. It's so cool. How you've built this up. So the last question I have for you is basically advice for new podcasts or so the podcasting game has changed drastically. When you were first coming on, it was so easy to land big guests because there was no other big

entrepreneurship podcasts out there. So you were able to get Gary V Tim Ferriss, Seth Godin. And now it's much harder. I actually was very lucky to interview Seth Godin recently, but like it's much harder. Thank you. Thank you. It was like one of my highlights of as being a podcast because he's amazing.

But anyway, it's way harder. And I think it's even way harder to make a splash on apple. I think in general, apple is losing [00:34:00] market share. It's not the same, how it was in terms of like word of mouth and in general, there's a lot more platforms you need to think about. So in your opinion, Where would you recommend a podcaster to pay attention to when it comes to their success as podcasting, like in terms of promotion, in terms of getting guests what's your advice for a podcast that's starting in 2021, knowing how different the game is these days.

John Lee Dumas: Listen the biggest piece of advice is you're not going to just come on and interview entrepreneurs and build a multi-million dollar business like I did, because that is so 2012. And I say that like half jokingly, but half serious, like it was not unbelievably difficult to do in 2012, because again, I was the only person doing this daily show and there wasn't a ton of business shows out there.

Like I was in the apple podcast top 10 for ever, because there just wasn't that much competition. And now there is it's just a different bogging. Spotify is coming in and. Nine figures to acquire Joe Rogan, millions and millions to acquire Michelle Obama and [00:35:00] prince Harry. And, it was just like the money is pouring into the space now.

And it's we'd like to say the pro casters have arrived now. Like they're pros people that are professionals are coming into podcasting now because. This is the best place to be for people like you and I, that, can talk the talk and walk the walk and have the, desire to work hard and do these different things.

So if you're going to start a podcast in 2020 and 2021 and beyond. Listen, it's going to be a specific podcast. You've got you. You have to be focused on delivering a specific solution to a real pain point, a real problem. And then you've got to be the best podcast doing that. And if you think there's already five podcasts that are already out there doing this.

Great. You're not niche enough. You're gonna niche out and become the best podcast, this delivering the best solution for that specific real pain points and problem, and struggle and obstacle and challenge. That's how you're going to win. And then when you want to grow the show, you've got to put in the wraps. [00:36:00] Look at me Hala I'm eight years in 3000 interviews on my own show.

And but I'm still doing 20 interviews on other people's shows and by the way, Very few of the shows that I'm on today have nearly as big of a following as yours. And I don't even check. I don't even try to vet verify. I just say pretty much. Yes. Because number one, I look at it as a way of giving back to the podcasting community.

So I'm happy to do that, which is why I limit most interviews to 15 minutes. Of course you're a little bigger time. So I gave you double the time. But the reality is I spend so much time every single month being a guest on other people's podcasts because, Hey, it's no secret that podcast listeners listen to podcasts.

And so I just want to be one of seven podcasts that Hala's listeners listen to it. Cause Hala, they're not gonna stop listening to your show. They love your show. But your average listener listens to six other podcasts. I want to become one of their six, listen to my show too. So I'm on here trying to deliver value to [00:37:00] your audience so that I become one of the seven podcasts that your audience listens to.

And that's my shtick and I'm sticking to it.

Hala Taha: It's such great advice. Thank you so much. JLD you did such a great job. The last question I ask all my guests is what is your secret to profiting in


John Lee Dumas: Perspective. Cause if you have the right perspective, that you're winning in the moment right now because things could be so much worse.

Like yes, things could be better for all of us, but they could be so much worse. So perspective.
Hala Taha: I love that. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you

John Lee Dumas: Listen to entrepreneurs on fire my podcast. After of course you listened to Hala's podcast and please check out

That's where all of our free courses for entrepreneurs are, and don't miss our pre-order. It's unbelievable. Like the gifts, the bonuses are amazing. They're only available when you pre-order the book Check it out.

Hala Taha: Awesome. Thank you so much. Great [00:38:00] podcasting advice, so much.

Great life advice. We appreciate you. Thank you so much.

John Lee Dumas: Thank you.

Hala Taha: Thanks for listening to young and profiting podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode with John Lee Dumas. I especially love to learn how he was able to differentiate his podcast by doing something that's never been done before daily podcast episodes, that really helped him stand out from the crowd and gave him the reps and practice.

He needed to be a top notch interviewer, if you love this interview with JLD and you still want to learn more about podcasting and entrepreneurship. In general, I recommend to go check out number 57, build your social capital with Jordan Harbinger. Jordan is a social dynamics expert and hosts the top educational podcast.

The Jordan Harbinger show in number 57, we discussed how to care for your network to make it stronger than ever. And we get Jordan's key practicals to boost your company. And ace your first impressions. And as a bonus, we dig into [00:39:00] podcasting and cover topics like how Jordan studies for his guests and why most podcasts fail.

Here's the clip from number 57. I actually did my first podcast episode. Two years ago on first impressions, it was like basically like an audio book. I did so much research. And after that episode, I realized that first impressions are probably one of the best life skills that you could learn how to do.

I heard that you have this drill, that you do a doorway drill that can help you build confidence. And I was hoping you could share that with


Jordan Harbinger: Sure. So if you're watching this on video, Look like I'm hunched over and in a murder basement. Don't judge me based on that, but when you go through it, so most people will say like, all right, my first impression is no good.

What do I say? What do I do? That is not really how first impressions work. A lot of people think their first impression is made when they open their mouth. Not really the case. Your first impression is made non-verbally. And we know that because let's put it this way, test it for yourself. Next time you go to them.

Look [00:40:00] around you. Are you getting first impressions from people that are not talking with you? Okay. I think, yeah, we are right. Like you're walking down the street, you're walking through the mall. You're thinking tall, short, attractive, scary punk alts, whatever hipster like your mate, you're getting first impressions.

Your brain. Can't even for people to think they're not judgy. Your brain is literally hardwired to judge. It's a safety mechanism. It's kept you alive, the human race alive. So I don't care. What's how woke you are. You're still doing that. And your first impression is made non verbally. You can prove that to yourself.

If you don't believe me from the example, what we want to do is create a positive, open and friendly, confident, first impression. And the way that we do that is by being upright. So stand up straight, shoulders back, chest up, chin up, smile on your face. You don't have to exaggerate it. Cause you'll look really silly.

You'll look like a moron, but you have to do that. And you have to remember to do that every time you walk into a room. That's the trick, right? Like great. I now have to remember to do this 24 7, totally unrealistic. I say anchor it to something that is [00:41:00] a memory trigger like a doorway. So anchor it to a doorway.

Now every time you enter a room, usually through a doorway, you'll be upright, positive, open, confident, friendly, whatever sort of positive adjective you want to throw in there. You'll have good posture. You'll have good nonverbal communication to the room that you're open, positive, confident, friendly, whatever you want.

Now the trick is anchoring it to a door. You're going to forget that. Two seconds after you hear this, because you go through doors all day. So grab some post-it notes and put them up at eye level. Yeah. I don't have to write anything on them. Just get those little green ones that are always on clearance because nobody buys them put I'm up at eye level in the doorway.

Then when you walk through a door, you'll see that little post-it note. And you'll be that your brain will go, wait, what is that? It's called a pattern interrupt. It's like a hidden, cheesy hypnosis thing. It'll interrupt your autopilot thoughts like, oh, I got to go downstairs and make some macaroni. Like you don't you'll see that and you'll go, oh, that I got a green post-it note. What was that for? Going through the door, open, upright, positive, confident body language. You'll remember to reset your non-verbals as you go through that door.

Hala Taha: [00:42:00] As I said, if you're still in the mood to learn about podcasting and entrepreneurship in general, go back and check out.

Number 57, build your social capital with Jordan Harbinger. And if you're a new listener, please take a few minutes to subscribe to YAP and drop us a review on apple podcasts. It's a free and effective way to support the show. This week. I'm shouting out a review from Nat GA and Paul Nuasac. The first one is from Nat.

Hala is amazing. I saw Hala on the cover of podcast magazine. I love all the amazing guests that you have. Keep inspiring us all. Yay. How fun that you found me on podcasts magazine. It was such an honor to be featured on the cover. I really appreciate that. You discovered us, you listened to the podcast and I hope you continue to enjoy episodes from young and profiting podcasts.

I'm so happy to have you as a new listener. And the next one is from Paul. It goes like this from LinkedIn to my podcast list with Hala Taha after seeing inspirational posts on [00:43:00] LinkedIn, I reached out to connect with Hala Taha from that connection. I always pointed to her podcast and certainly was not disappointed.

Her podcast is a no nonsense show filled with great guests and a ton of insight on how to get it done. Motivation and inspiration with business insight and a quick, no messing around question type podcast. I would recommend this podcast to anyone who wants motivation and inspiration to get it done. All the best together.

We can. Another fan Paul Nuasac. Thank you so much for leaving such an awesome review and taking the time to leave us feedback. And if you're out there listening and you found value in today's show, please also take a few minutes to write us a review on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And I love seeing posts about YAP on LinkedIn or Instagram.
If you're listening on Spotify, you can share the podcast, write your Instagram story, or you can just take a screenshot of your podcast app and share it to your story. And tag me @yapwithhala. I'll always repost [00:44:00] and support those who support us. You can find me on Instagram @yapwithhala or LinkedIn, just search for my name.

It's Hala Taha. And now I'm also on clubhouse. If you're on clubhouse, you can find me with username. Hala Taha.

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