Chase Hughes: Hacking Human Behavior to Gain Influence | E8

Chase Hughes: Hacking Human Behavior to Gain Influence | E8

#8: Hacking Human Behavior to Gain Influence with Chase Hughes

In this episode, Hala speaks with Chase Hughes, a leading military and intelligence behavior expert, and author of “The Ellipsis Manual,” which is known to be the most comprehensive mind control guide out there. Tune in to gain a 101 understanding of behavior science, specifically non-verbal analysis, behavior profiling and the qualities of authority— which you’ll come to find out is a very important thing. You’ll leave the episode with easy to implement tactics you can use to increase influence in everyday life.

[00:00:00] Hala Taha: You're listening to YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and grow. I'm Hala Taha, and today we're speaking with Chase Hughes, a leading military and intelligence behavior expert with 20 years of experience. The man has created some of the most advanced behavior skills courses available worldwide.

[00:00:22] This episode is centered on behavior science, specifically nonverbal analysis, behavior profiling, and the qualities of authority, which will come to find out is a very important thing. Chase Hughes spends most of his time training law enforcement and government agents in the field, but he also wrote a powerful book called The Ellipsis Manual, which is known to be the most comprehensive mind control and nonverbal analysis guide out there.

[00:00:48] But Chase also provides free tools to analyze human behavior for regular folks like us too. And my focus in this interview will be to try to uncover easy to understand tactics that we can learn from [00:01:00] Chase to improve our civilian lives. 

[00:01:04] Hey Chase, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:06] Chase Hughes: Thanks, Hala. Glad to be here. 

[00:01:07] Hala Taha: So this isn't the first time our listeners have heard about body language.

[00:01:11] In fact, in my first episode, I covered how to make a great first impression, and I had Dr. Jack Schaeffer on the show talking about body language. Have you heard of him before? 

[00:01:21] Chase Hughes: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So a brilliant guy. 

[00:01:23] Yeah, I 

[00:01:23] Hala Taha: loved him and that's really how I got started into body language. Read the like Switch. It's a pretty popular book, but hoping that in this episode we can take it to a whole new level. 

[00:01:32] Chase Hughes: Let's do it. 

[00:01:33] Hala Taha: So would you explain to our listeners who you are, what you do for your day job and why you spend so many years studying the power of body language? 

[00:01:42] Chase Hughes: I run a behavior science company based in Virginia Beach and we teach behavior science to intelligence operations units.

[00:01:52] Military, federal government, and for the first time ever in January, we're releasing all of our behavior training to the public. We have a [00:02:00] seminar in London, but we specialize in interrogation, behavior profiling, deception, detection, interviewing techniques and just behavior science in general that uses psychological tactics to gain compliance from people in the field.

[00:02:15] Hala Taha: Very cool. And so why is body language so powerful? 

[00:02:19] Chase Hughes: Why it's powerful? I'm not sure. I'm sure there's some evolutionary stuff that some smarter people than me could come up with, but I think that's one of the things that's always fascinated me was that it makes up a consensus is around two thirds of communication of what's actually being communicated.

[00:02:38] And we study it so infrequently. So like a Harvard psychologist for example, would go through all of the school and maybe have about 20 minutes or less on nonverbal communication and body language, which is just astounding to me that there's a resounding amount of studies that say that it's so much of our communication and [00:03:00] how vital and important it is, and not even our healthcare practitioners, our mental health practitioners, much less a regular doctor get training in this kinda stuff.

[00:03:09] Hala Taha: In your book, you talk about psychological loophole. And how our minds are wired to be manipulated. Can you talk about that a little bit? 

[00:03:19] Chase Hughes: Sure. We have what I call the firewall illusion or the firewall delusion that we think that there's some kind of firewall in our brain that prevents us from being manipulated.

[00:03:31] We see someone else get manipulated and we say, Oh, that would never happen to me. I would never obey an order to kill someone. I would never join a cult. I would never buy that thing just because a commercial told me to. And what's really funny is that the illusion that just the belief of you having a firewall makes you 10 times more manipulatable, and it makes you more easily influenced and it's [00:04:00] easier for someone to hijack your brain. Just imagine if you thought that you could not be manipulated or controlled and someone was doing it to you during the process of you being manipulated, you still feel safe. And you'll rationalize to yourself after the event occurs, that you made your own choices and your own decisions.

[00:04:19] Hala Taha: So I think something that could really set the stage is something I've heard you talk about before. It's called the Milgram Experiment. 

[00:04:26] Chase Hughes: Yeah. 

[00:04:27] Hala Taha: Would you describe that to our listeners who aren't familiar? 

[00:04:30] Chase Hughes: Sure. So the two minute explanation of this is in 1962, there's a doctor, a Harvard psychologist named Dr. Stanley Milgram and he was watching the war trials, which were called the Nuremberg Trials, where they brought these Nazi war criminals and put them on trial and asked why they were murdering people by the thousands. And the resounding answer from so many of these people was that they were just following orders.

[00:04:58] I was just following orders [00:05:00] and Milgram's parents were Jewish and actually made it out. But he wanted to prove, he wanted to figure out some way to scientifically prove whether or not it's possible that a person can just be following orders. So they have this experiment, you respond to this newspaper ad, they're gonna pay for your meals, they'll pay you every day.

[00:05:18] Do you go in there and there's a guy standing there in a lab coat and you draw straws. It's just you and one other person. You draw straw. One straw is the teacher, one straw is the learner and in reality, the guy that you're in the room with is part of the experiment. You're the only person that's actually a participant, so you will always draw the teachers straw.

[00:05:38] So you and this other guy who's the student, the learner, go into this other room that's adjoining the room that you'll be sitting in and you watch him get sat down into a chair and they say, We're doing a study on punishment and learning, and whether punishment improves a person's ability to learn. So you watch this guy get strapped to these [00:06:00] electrodes that are specifically designed to deliver electric shocks when he gets a wrong answer.

[00:06:06] So they even put one on your arm and let you feel what the shock feels like, and it's pretty painful. So this guy's all strapped in. They shut the door, you're on the other side of the wall from this guy. They sit you down in front of this big control box. It's got voltage buttons on it, going from zero volts to 450, I think.

[00:06:22] And then after that it says XXX, the final button. So for every time this guy gets an answer wrong, which he does deliberately over and over again, you have to deliver increasing amounts of voltage. So in this room where you're seated in front of this big box, it's you, a clipboard, and you've gotta read some words to this guy and ask him a question.

[00:06:42] And the other guy behind you is the guy in the lab coat who's running the experiment. So he's the authority figure there. So delivering shocks above 400 could be potentially lethal. So these people are delivering shocks every time, and it's getting increasing. The guy's screaming on the other side of the wall, you can hear [00:07:00] him.

[00:07:00] He's pounding on the wall. Eventually, he says, I have a heart condition. I don't want to participate anymore. I'm outta here. Get me out of here. Just screaming, and finally, around 350 to 400 volts. You hear No more sound at all. And he stops answering questions completely. And the guy in the lab coat says, Any non-answer must be treated as an incorrect answer, continue the experiment please. So keep shocking this guy. Keep going. So before this experiment started, this group of psychiatrists and psychologists sat down together and they decided that about 0.01% of people, 0.01, would go all the way to killing the other person and all the way to the maximum.

[00:07:45] And as it turns out, 65% of people committed murder in less than an hour because a stranger told them to. 

[00:07:55] Hala Taha: That's unbelievable. 

[00:07:56] Chase Hughes: It is, and it's hard to [00:08:00] think that we would do that. Everyone, of course, you ask Would you ever do this? Of course everyone's gonna say, No, never. I would never do this. And that illusion is what makes it dangerous, that when we are exposed to an authority figure, our brains switch off and we go into what Stanley Milgram described as an agentic shift.

[00:08:25] So agentic being the root word, being agent. So we become an agent for the other person to where the responsibility for our actions no longer rely on our shoulders. It's someone else's fault. We obey authority figures with way more obedience and way more trust than we should place in those people. So for instance, the guy in the lab coat didn't have a doctor's ID on, wasn't wearing his stethoscope.

[00:08:53] It was just a good looking guy whose hair was recently cut. He's well-spoken well manner. And [00:09:00] all he says to the participants in the experiment is, It's important that you continue the experiment, requires that you continue or please continue. Just a few phrases like that. And at no time did he force anyone to participate, but guess how many people shocked another person in the other room up to a hundred volts?

[00:09:20] It was a hundred percent. A hundred percent. 0% across the entire experiment, over thousands of people. 0% went into the other room to check on the other person. 

[00:09:34] Hala Taha: Yeah, it just speaks to how important it is to be conscious. Of the fact that everybody is so easily manipulated and you can either be the one in control or you could be the one getting controlled.

[00:09:46] So really eye opening. So glad that we're having this conversation. In your past to getting people aware of all of this, you created something called the ellipsis system. Can you explain what that is? 

[00:09:58] Chase Hughes: Yeah, so the [00:10:00] ellipsis system was designed originally for intelligence operations, so human psychological intelligence operations.

[00:10:08] So in a hypothetical environment here, Hala I've gotta send you, you're a intelligence asset and I send you over to the Ukraine, and you have to meet with a guy you've never met before, and you have two hours to convince him to basically commit treason against his own country. And spy for you and give you information.

[00:10:31] And the ellipsis system was designed to create extreme compliance and extreme obedience in people, and it leverages behavior profiling, identifying needs, weaknesses, and insecurities. and then using all that information, using psychological tactics, linguistic techniques, mixtures of neurolinguistic programming and hypnosis, and a tremendous amount of authority, which is what [00:11:00] caused people to commit murder in the Milgram experiment.

[00:11:02] That was pretty much a hundred percent authority. So authority is very important, and that's one of the reasons that we broke authority down in that if you had no persuasion or influence skills, what so ever. Authority would be the most important part, but that's what the book was really written for. And I didn't really realize that there was a civilian interest in psychology, mostly because I've been in the military my entire adult life.

[00:11:28] Hala Taha: Yeah. And I'm really hoping to pull out some of these examples that we could use. My listeners are typically like young professionals, entrepreneurs, students, so I'm really hoping we can pull out some stuff that is practical for us. 

[00:11:40] Chase Hughes: Absolutely. 

[00:11:41] Hala Taha: You created something called the Behavioral Table of Elements, and basically what that is, it's an analysis tool that scientifically categorizes human behavior.

[00:11:51] It is so detailed like you literally categorize every single thing a person could do in an interaction from moving their fingers or jaw clenching or [00:12:00] face touching. It was so much detail. How did you develop that? How did you validate that and how do you know that it works? 

[00:12:07] Chase Hughes: Good question. I'll start from your last question and work backwards there.

[00:12:10] Hala Taha: Sure. 

[00:12:11] Chase Hughes: So we know that it works based off of over 35,000 hours of interrogation video analysis. and it's a bibliography for the behavioral table is about 120 pages long. So it's not all my research, It's almost none of my research except for a few new cells that have been added and the research goes back 150 years and it's not perfect.

[00:12:34] But I think it's the best behavior reading tool that humans have produced so far. And it was developed originally for an interrogator or a senior interrogation officer. To watch an interrogation video and figure out where deception was so the interrogator could go back in the room and drill down on more questions.

[00:12:56] And after we release this thing, which is free to the public [00:13:00] now if you want the non interactive version, just like the picture of it, it's free. . We released this thing and there was a lot of public interest. Then it became a behavior training tool. Then the police started using this. The police have really taken off using this thing, and then it was in the business world.

[00:13:15] And then huge sales teams started using this thing. And the origin of the behavioral table was probably 14 years, maybe 13 years ago. I was sitting with my mom watching an episode of The Bachelor. I was just visiting in town and I think we were just having a glass of wine, and my mom was going through the girls on the bachelor.

[00:13:36] She was like, Oh, I like her. This one's a total B. And just explaining everything to me. And I was like the one you like would just lied to him when they were in the hot tub together. And I was a deception expert long before the creation of the behavioral table. And it was just a moment where my mom was like, Chase, I wish I could just have your eyes for one of these episodes and just watch it.

[00:13:57] So that night I was just laying in bed. [00:14:00] Thinking about like, how could I give another person my eyes? Is there a way to put all of my knowledge onto a single piece of paper I can give. So that was it. That became the behavioral table. It went from the Bachelor and now to like hardcore interrogation scenarios.

[00:14:17] Hala Taha: Yeah. And just to give our listeners some visual insight to what this looks like. It's basically like the table of elements that you would see in science class. But instead, Chase has identified the different movements and actions and even like conversational aspects that a person could do in an interaction and allows you to categorize them and classify them and understand what to do next based on those actions.

[00:14:45] Chase, you might be able to explain it better than I did. 

[00:14:48] Chase Hughes: Yeah, it looks like the periodic table of elements and I think we could have easily just made it a big square, but I think making it resemble the periodic table and follow the structure. 

[00:14:59] One, it was a really good [00:15:00] idea the way the periodic tables laid out, but two, I think it's cool and it shows a little bit of familiarity when people look at it. 

[00:15:07] Hala Taha: Yeah. And we'll link to it in our show notes so you guys can take a look yourself. So like I mentioned before, the amount of depths that you go into this book is like insane. It's pretty overwhelming to be honest. You talk about something that we always hear about, for example, crossing our arms.

[00:15:22] Chase Hughes: Yeah. 

[00:15:22] Hala Taha: Intuitively, I always thought. Meant something negative, like we either impatient or frustration, or maybe you're just trying to cover up your muffin top. It really could be anything. But in your book, you go into the fact that you need to pay attention to the closeness of palms to the body, the direction the thumbs are pointing, the distance from the torso.

[00:15:44] And it was just so overwhelming. And I'm wondering like, who can actually pay attention to this stuff? Is it really possible to memorize what people are doing and then to go back and evaluate what everybody's doing? How does someone go about training themselves and how long does that take for someone to become an [00:16:00] expert?

[00:16:00] Chase Hughes: Expert is a word I think is overused today. Becoming an expert may take years and years. But being good at reading body language does not take an expert level of skill. And a lot of people assume at the very beginning that they see this giant behavior table like, Okay, I need to make flashcards, I need to memorize all this stuff.

[00:16:19] And you really don't. You read up on this stuff and then you watch human behavior. So if you just spent two weeks just watching human behavior, watching fingers, watching eyes, watching facial muscles move, watching the body, the way people's posture tilts, all of this stuff. How fast or how often someone is blinking or breathing during a conversation of just observing this stuff without trying to make meaning of any of it.

[00:16:47] Just observing it for its own sake. So you start to get a habit. You're starting to push yourself into a habit of just observing behavior. And then after time you start reading about more behavior and [00:17:00] reading about more behavior, and then you won't have to interpret anything. You'll start to develop an intuition.

[00:17:05] So it's not like learning geometry or some skill. I would say it's more akin to learning a motorcycle. , like we have a lot of things going on at one time, and it's best to just master one thing at a time until it moves from the front of your brain where you have to pay attention to it to the back of your brain where it's automatic.

[00:17:25] So like driving was really hard at first until you got good at it, and now you can zone out on your way home from work, so it'll become unconscious. But I'd say the most important thing to being able to read people and this is a skill that everyone needs. If you're in sales, you are in the human behavior business.

[00:17:45] If you're in business, you deal with human behavior on a regular basis. So being able to see this stuff and really understand what it means is so critical. Even if it's two thirds and not 90% of communication, like a [00:18:00] lot of studies suggest it's more than half of communication, and we almost deliberately ignore it .

[00:18:07] So I think once you're able to start seeing behavior, just watching it for its own sake and then learning more about it, the first thing that usually happens to people is that it's really depressing because you will see suffering and insecurity and fear in every person that you meet. But in the end, suffering is like the universal law of human beings.

[00:18:29] Everyone is suffering. Everyone's going through something. Everyone is self-conscious. I've never met a non self-conscious person.. So I think what that does after you get over yeah, everybody's screwed up. It gets to a place where people are more approachable and they're more human. So it just humanizes everybody and it takes away a lot of your own social anxiety once you can see how screwed up everybody else is.

[00:18:53] Hala Taha: Yeah. I hope that one day I'll be able to do this. For now, I just need to practice. And I think that you [00:19:00] mention that using different TV shows is a good way to start getting familiar with everything, right? 

[00:19:05] Chase Hughes: Yeah. I had a client recently who was training with me and she wanted to bring up her favorite reality show at the time, which was called Catfish, and I had never heard of it.

[00:19:17] And I'm not a big tv guy. But this show on MTV where these people pretend to be like a hot guy or a hot girl and lure these people into these relationships online. And then of course it comes up in this big crescendo, this emotional crescendo at the end where there's a big reveal and stuff, but it's very telling cuz it, it's not fiction.

[00:19:38] So it's a reality show. So you get to see a whole lot of facial expressions of emotion. That's one of the good ones. Then if you wanna look for anxiety, I would watch Conan O'Brien interviewing almost anybody. Will produce anxiety behavior. 

[00:19:51] Hala Taha: So some of the more interesting body signals that came across in your book were. Yawning ,eye blink rate, palm exposure, [00:20:00] inward toe pointing, and shoe removal. Do you wanna just speak to some of those and give examples of what these body signals mean? 

[00:20:07] Chase Hughes: Absolutely. So one thing that your listeners could take away right now is blink rate. This is how often, not how fast, but how often someone blinks.

[00:20:18] And the less often we blink, the more interested and absorbed we are in a conversation. So the last time you watched your favorite movie, a movie that you really liked, which like for me would be like Inter Stellar. When I watched Inter Stellar, my blink rate was probably or between a seven and a 12 blinks per minute.

[00:20:38] And if you think back to like when you took the math portion of your SATs, or you're taking a really hard exam in college, your blink rate can go up to 55 per minute without you even noticing that there was a shift. So stress increases behavior, so does some kinds of discomfort. So if you're on a date and the blink rate is really low, you don't have to count per [00:21:00] minute.

[00:21:00] You just see whether or not it's speeding up, slowing down, whether or not it's slow or it's fast. So you shift conversation topics and if you're a guy and you start talking about like how you change your transmission out on your car and all the process of how to do that, and you see the blink rate go up.

[00:21:15] Yep. It's time to change the subject. And as a public speaker, I speak to crowds of 200 or 300 on a regular basis. One thing that I do is I take a few people in the first two rows, and as I'm making eye contact, I'm taking the blink rate of the average of the room to measure the interest of everyone in the room.

[00:21:34] So as I'm moving around, I can see how often people are blinking because I'm making eye contact with people in the audience. I know when everybody's interested in the topic, I can keep going a little bit or when I just need to move forward. 

[00:21:46] Hala Taha: Something else I found interesting was the shoe removal concept. So from what I remember, it's if you take off your shoe, it means that you're comfortable, you're confident, you feel secure. And I do notice that when I'm in a meeting with top [00:22:00] executives, they're the ones that are like playing with their shoes. 

[00:22:03] Chase Hughes: Yeah, absolutely. It's usually the person who's most comfortable does it first. With his authority gives permission for other people to also relax. 

[00:22:11] Hala Taha: Yeah. And I wonder if they know about it and they're doing it on purpose or if it's just subconscious, but probably subconscious. 

[00:22:16] Chase Hughes: I bet most of it's unconscious. Yeah. I've trained a lot of executives who are behaviorally illiterate.

[00:22:21] Hala Taha: So something else you cover in your book is the 17 Human Needs and profiling them for weaknesses. We obviously don't have time to cover them all, but can you talk about why it's important to understand people's motivations and explain that to our listeners. 

[00:22:36] Chase Hughes: Absolutely. So one of the biggest things that you can do when you're talking with someone is just ask yourself questions during the conversation.

[00:22:46] Something like, What makes this person feel significant? What kind of compliments do this person's friends give them that makes them feel good? So in the very beginning of an interaction, you'll [00:23:00] hear those questions and you'll hear the answers to those questions. So you'll see either where they need acceptance or approval or appreciation of some sort.

[00:23:10] If you wanna break it down without going into the needs, there's just six basic questions that you can use during a conversation. 

[00:23:18] Number one, What need are they showing me right now? So is there a need for significance, acceptance, approval, appreciation, need for variety and multiple experiences. Next would be what do they like to be complimented on?

[00:23:32] Number three would be what makes them feel strong? Number four, what do they avoid in order to be happy or feel happy? Number five, what does happy sound like in their words and their tone. So what words do they use when they're talking about something they enjoy, which are words that you can later use during the conversation?

[00:23:53] And number six, what is at the end? Where do they want to end up? So those six questions will help you in [00:24:00] pretty much any conversation that you could have. Especially in social scenarios.

[00:24:04] Hala Taha: And you call these x-ray questions, right? 

[00:24:06] Chase Hughes: Yes. 

[00:24:07] Hala Taha: Yeah. Maybe what I'll do is write those out in the show notes for people's reference.

[00:24:11] Chase Hughes: That'd be awesome. 

[00:24:12] Hala Taha: So something else I think our listeners would find very useful is your five qualities of authority. And I thought maybe we could go into some detail here. The five qualities are control, discipline, leadership, gratitude and enjoyment. Could you just go through each one and talk about the things you think are most important to discuss?

[00:24:30] Chase Hughes: Yes and since we've done some more research we've replaced control with confidence. So it's confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude and enjoyment. So those five factors pretty much give you authority. So having that confidence or just being completely certain that the positive outcome's gonna happen. helps you to have more control over the social situation. So those five qualities alone, if you were just to work on those in your own [00:25:00] life, those give you that social authority. Those are what trigger in people's brain. So think of like the Milgrim experiment or any experiment that's been done on authority.

[00:25:10] That authority figure has to have those five qualities in order to control the. To define what the situation means or what they call setting a frame. And that authority figure has to have those five qualities in order to get compliance or obedience or attention or focus from anyone in the room. 

[00:25:30] Hala Taha: So in your opinion, what does it take to have confidence or have discipline or have leadership? Can you talk a little deeper about that? 

[00:25:41] Chase Hughes: Sure. So I would say, Confidence especially is one of the most important. So confidence by itself doesn't really do anything without the other floor, just like everything else. They need each other to survive. But in order to have confidence, let's say all of these go from a [00:26:00] one to five, I developed what I call the authority assessment scale to see where a person is on each one of these.

[00:26:06] So like a level one would be a burden on other. A level two would be developing. Level three would be positive. Four is inspirational, and five is contagious. So like on a confidence, a level one would be like you're unable to start conversations with a stranger. You have a sense of panic when you're meeting new people.

[00:26:26] Unable to introduce yourself to strangers. You're socially withdrawn. You unable to accept compliments from people. Take criticism way too personally. Unable to offer your own opinions in most conversations. Gripping or frequent in decision giving up on goals regularly. And changing yourself to please other people.

[00:26:43] So that would be like a level one and a level five, where you're contagious. So your confidence is contagious to the point where other people are around you, they become confident. That would be like you're able to converse with anyone at any time. You receive criticism well regardless of the source.

[00:26:59] Your [00:27:00] self image is really positive. You have no need for reassurance. Take action like physical action with your body without reservation or hesitation. And you tactfully stop all negativity when it's being discussed around you. You set detailed and relevant goals. Others tend to emulate your behavior and personality traits at the level five level of all of these.

[00:27:22] Hala Taha: Yeah, that's so interesting. I feel like if there was one thing that every professional could use is this assessment tool and making sure they move up the ladder in a positive way,

[00:27:32] Chase Hughes: I'll definitely send one to you for the show notes. 

[00:27:33] Hala Taha: Awesome. Okay. Something else I just wanna touch on. I was listening to an interview that you had recently and you were talking about how you are able to tell a lot about a person just by having a phone conversation with them.

[00:27:46] Can you talk about how your personal life can leak out and your external actions and everything that you do and how we have to have our own discipline in our personal lives? 

[00:27:56] Chase Hughes: Absolutely, and this is one of the most critical things for somebody to [00:28:00] really understand. that on the phone, it comes in the form of hesitation.

[00:28:05] It comes in the form of people saying or ah, or hedging some of the stuff they know, like they're have question marks on the ends of their sentences. So they're inviting other people to agree with them even though it's a statement. And over the phone especially, you'll hear the indecisions, you'll hear people that are have non decisive language like I just did with the word kind of,

[00:28:28] and I just slipped it in. So this overall sense of confidence or discipline or leadership bleeds out into your personal life. So a good example would be the last time that you went to a party, or the last time you went out to a concert or something and you left a giant pile of laundry undone, or you left a huge pile of dishes in the sink, or you're late on your bills or you meant to wash your car that day, but you didn't, and It looks like it's disgusting, [00:29:00] so something was left undone. Part of our brain, I don't know which part I don't think anyone does, but there's part of our brain that's dedicated to reminding us when we've forgotten to do something or when we've neglected.

[00:29:17] and no matter how confident your body language is, no matter how in control and how many tactics and cool stuff you learn on YouTube or how many articles you read about how to appear more confident, it's going to look confident on the exterior, but the event will happen to the point where the person gets the feeling like something's not right.

[00:29:37] and we've all experienced that with one or two people, at least in our lives, to where we've, we're talking to somebody, everything looks right on the exterior, but something feels off, Something doesn't match. So this incongruence, there's an incongruence in the physical behavior of the person you're speaking to and something that's leaking out.

[00:29:57] We call this nonverbal leakage. [00:30:00] So we are somehow unconsciously communicating to their unconscious that we are not actually confident. We're not actually a good leader. We neglected something at home. So my key point is that if you don't have what we call the five mastery zones of authority, if you don't have those things handled in your personal life, it's going to leak out in every conversation every day of your life.

[00:30:26] Sometimes you'll might get away with it and the person may not notice. Most of the time something is gonna feel off about the conversation to the other person. And those mastery zones are environment, time, appearance, social and financial. And they have to be done in order. So like you get your environment handled, you make your bed, you pick up after yourself.

[00:30:46] You don't leave messes, you don't make messes, and you don't walk past a mess ever. Like you, Your environment is controlled not by anyone else, but like you are in control of your environment. That helps build the confidence [00:31:00] and then you start controlling your time. You manage your time and you cannot manage time without priorities.

[00:31:05] Cuz whenever you hear somebody says, I don't have time for that. It just means it's not a priority. I don't have time to go to the gym. Means gym's not a priority. I don't have time to eat. Eating right's not a priority, so controlling your time, getting control over your time, and then your physical appearance.

[00:31:21] There are thousands of research studies that say better looking people. Not just genetically better looking, but people who are well taken care of, people who look fit and look happy and look confident, receive lesser prison sentences. They're more likely to get out of a traffic ticket. They'll have better pay at jobs.

[00:31:41] They're more likely to get hired all around our entire society. This appearance plays a major role and it plays a major role in your authority too. When you speak to other people, whether you're in sales, business doesn't matter, or you're working at Williams Sonoma, it doesn't. Appearance comes after that.

[00:31:59] And after that is [00:32:00] your social skills or your social development. So being able to carry on a regular conversation. Can I make small talk? Can I tell a compelling story to someone that I just met without, like closing off? So forcing yourself to develop social muscles is really important. And finally, the financial part.

[00:32:17] Even if your finances are screwed up, your credit is screwed up. Go see somebody now just having your brain start to understand that you're getting back on track will shut off that leakage. So just starting to bring that under control or grab this steering wheel and drive it back onto the road where it's supposed to be with your finances, that stops the nonverbal leakage of irresponsibility to some degree.

[00:32:41] Hala Taha: That's super helpful advice. I feel like if everybody could just make a little movement in those areas, will all be in a better place. Okay, so I thought maybe we could close out the episode with some practical scenarios. I think a really interesting one could be a networking event, [00:33:00] being at a networking event. 

[00:33:01] What are the kind of behaviors that we should look out for? How should we act ourselves? Can you just describe like what an ideal situation would be in terms of a networking event? 

[00:33:12] Chase Hughes: Absolutely, and if you want this from like a intelligence training perspective, the first thing you need to do before the network event starts is to push yourself as hard as you fricking can to get up to a level five on confidence, leadership, discipline, gratitude and enjoyment.

[00:33:28] That alone will make you more magnetic than anyone else in the room. So that being said, everyone wants to teach you the tricks. Here's what to say. Here's how to shake someone's hand. You need to make eye contact, you need to smile. You need to show your teeth when you smile, even if they don't look great.

[00:33:45] So these are all little tricks. And when you see like networking tricks, how to meet new people, all of that are ways to pretend like you've got your stuff together. So if you think about all the tricks and tactics of persuasion, There are [00:34:00] all ways to pretend or fake someone out into thinking that you have either confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, or you're enjoying yourself.

[00:34:09] All of those things. So getting those handled beforehand means you're not gonna have to worry about the tricks when you're meeting new people. But at a networking event, I would say the number one quality that you can have is a genuine interest in other. At a networking event, everyone wants to talk about themselves, talk about their new product that they're launching, the business they're working on, and they want to talk about their goals, which goes back to that six questions.

[00:34:36] So those are just those x-ray questions will really help you out in a conversation. And just talking to people and having that genuine interest and making people feel interesting is more important than making them feel interested. So at the networking event, if you're going to a networking event, be the first one to introduce yourself.

[00:34:56] Be the first one to introduce a stranger you just met to [00:35:00] another stranger that you just met. you become the network. So you become the web as much as possible to the furthest extent, to introduce other people that you just met, to someone that else that you just met, and you be the glue that kind of holds everybody together.

[00:35:14] Be the first one to hand out your business card. Be the first one to reach out. I've been to some networking events here in Virginia Beach, and people that are afraid to talk to each other, who came to an event, specifically designed for people to talk to each. So I would say if there's any place on Earth where you have permission to go talk to strangers anytime you want, it's a networking event, and that's one of your chances also to start boosting up the social part of the Authority Mastery Zone.

[00:35:42] Hala Taha: Very cool. Very good advice. Scenario number two, a conflict with an individual, whether that's work or school. 

[00:35:49] Chase Hughes: Awesome. So this one, I will give you a few tips and trick. Although I'm a firm believer that you can learn 99% of your leadership lessons from watching [00:36:00] episodes of Andy Griffith, and I would say if you're having to have a difficult conversation with someone, you have to announce their point of view before you begin speaking or before you start talking about anything that's on your agenda to speak about.

[00:36:17] Always start the conversation with, I realize it's gotta be really tough for you to be able to do X, Y, and Z, or I can't imagine that you have to deal with this and this. So you have to start out by realizing that other person's point of view, which I learned from Andy Griffith, I would say that best thing you can do is deliver it quick and have the conversation as quick as possible.

[00:36:39] And only speak in terms of effect, not your opinion on how the person has done something wrong or somehow transgressed against the company values or something like that. Only speak in terms of the effect that the behavior has had instead of how the behavior is bad 

[00:36:58] Hala Taha: and how can we judge [00:37:00] how well the conversation is going, if we're making an impact and improving our relationship in the conversation.

[00:37:06] Chase Hughes: You're going to see a decrease in blink rate once they realize there's not gonna be a fight, they're not gonna get yelled at, and there's no argument they're being given a second chance most of the time. And as you start talking about the effect it has, you'll start to see head nodding and you'll see breathing into the stomach instead of the chests.

[00:37:23] But while you start nodding your head during the conversation and you're talking about the effect on the company or the effect on the business, you'll see a co nodding or them nodding their head with you. And as you finish or start wrapping up talking about the effect they have had on the company, or like the negative part of the conversation, you will start to see relaxation.

[00:37:45] That means there's more agreement there. That means there's less anger. So a person who's really pissed off and is gonna remain pissed off when they go outta the office, they'll stay closed, their behavior's gonna stay closed even after the negative information. A person who's [00:38:00] accepting of the negative information or the difficult conversation.

[00:38:03] You'll see their hands start to open up. Their legs start to open up. Their shoulders will fall down just a little bit. Their breathing weight's gonna slow down, and their blink rate will also slow down as the stress kind of releases and they realize they have a second chance, or that they've taken the lesson on.

[00:38:20] Hala Taha: Got it. That was excellent. I think both of those scenarios will be very helpful to everybody listening to the show. So Chase, I wanna be conscious of our time. So where can our listeners find everything that you do or learn more about everything that you do? 

[00:38:35] Chase Hughes: Yeah, they can Google my name, Chase Hughes, or they can go to our website, which is ellipsis

[00:38:42] On the website, there's tons of training on there that's free. Tons of behavior profiling, training that's free. And they can download all kinds of free resources because most of my target market is to the federal government or local police agencies. So stuff I do for the public is usually free.

[00:38:59] Hala Taha: [00:39:00] Got it. And your book is called The Ellipsis Manual, correct?

[00:39:02] Chase Hughes: Yes, The Ellipsis Manual. We just hit 18 months on the number one bestseller list on Amazon. 

[00:39:07] Hala Taha: Wow. And do you plan on putting that on Audible? Because I, I'm sure everybody listening to this podcast loves audio. 

[00:39:14] Chase Hughes: Yes. All honesty, putting it all on Audible has been a tremendous endeavor for me. Cuz I would get a sample and the guy sounds weird, is like a nasally voice then everybody says you should do it in your own voice. 

[00:39:30] Hala Taha: Yeah, you have a great voice. Do it in your own voice. 

[00:39:32] Chase Hughes: Thank you. 

[00:39:33] Hala Taha: I would so listen to that. I may do it and as soon as I find, I think there's probably studios out here. 

[00:39:39] Chase Hughes: I haven't done my own research on doing my own audiobook, but I'm sure there's somewhere out here that.

[00:39:44] Hala Taha: All right, cool. So thank you so much for joining the show. Like we mentioned, we're gonna have all of our different resources in the show notes, so for the folks that wanna explore more, they'll have the mechanism to do that. And I definitely wanna thank you for your time. This was very interesting and [00:40:00] I hope you have a great rest of your day.

[00:40:01] Chase Hughes: Thanks Hala, great to be on the show. 

[00:40:04] Hala Taha: Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting podcast. Follow y on Instagram at Young and Profiting, and follow me on LinkedIn. Just search for my name, Ha Taha. Thanks to our amazing producers, Daniel Mc Fatter and Timothy Tan, and the entire YAP team, Kayla Whitney, and our two newest team members, Stephanie and Christian. I hope you enjoyed the content and if you did help us out by writing a review. And don't forget to subscribe or follow YAP on your favorite platform to always keep up. And by the way, you can find us on Spotify now. Catch you next time. This is Hala signing off.

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