Richard Moore [Part 2]: The Laws of Selling | E54
#54: The Laws of Selling [Part 2] with Richard Moore
Get ready to amp up your sales skills! Today we have a return guest on the show, sales expert, Richard Moore. Richard was featured back in Episode #26, “The Laws of Selling.” Listen to that episode first or even after this one to soak up all of Richard’s amazing sales tips. Richard is a sales and business coach with 17+ years of experience in online, in-person and phone-based selling. His clients range from startups to 9-figure businesses, and he’s grown a massive influence on platforms like Linkedin and Instagram. Rich has also been featured in publications like Forbes, and the Huffington Post. In Laws of Selling Part 2, we’ll cover the difference between leads and prospects, the interplay between emotion and sales, his perspective on discounting and setting your price, and the art of closing a deal.
#54: The Laws of Selling [Part 2] with Richard Moore
[00:00:00] Hala Taha: This episode of YAP is sponsored by Fiverr a marketplace that over 5 million entrepreneurs use to grow their business. I've been using Fiverr for years. In fact, I got the YAP logo meet on there, and if you've seen my cool audiograms with animated cartoons, I get those images from Fivver, they have affordable services like graphic design, web design, digital marketing, whiteboard, explainer video.
[00:00:24] Programming video editing, audio editing, and much more. They have over 100,000 talented freelancers to choose from. And it's super affordable prices. Just start at $5. If you're interested to give Fiverr a shot, hit the link in our show notes. You're listening to Young And Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn and profit.
[00:00:47] I'm your host Hala Taha and today we have a return guest on the show sales expert, Richard Moore, Richard was featured in episode number 26. The Laws of Selling, I suggest to listen to the episode first, or [00:01:00] even after this one is soak up. All of Richard's amazing sales tax. Richard is a sales and business coach with over 17 years of experience in online in-person and phone-based selling his clients range from startups to nine figure businesses.
[00:01:14] And he's grown a massive influence on platforms like LinkedIn and Instagram. Richard has also been featured in publications like Forbes and the Huffington Post .In The Laws of Selling part two will cover the difference between leads and prospects, the interplay between emotion and sales, his perspective on discounting and setting your price and the art of closing a deal.
[00:01:38] Hey, Richard, welcome back to Young And Profiting Podcasts.
[00:01:42] Richard Moore: Thank you so much for having me back. It's been like seven or eight months, so it was really good to be here and I'm a big fan, so thank you.
[00:01:49] Hala Taha: Of course, we're so lucky to have you on here. I'm really looking forward to putting out The Laws of Selling part two, because when you came on last time, I was so [00:02:00] impressed with your knowledge of sales.
[00:02:01] And so are my listeners. I got so much positive feedback about that episode. So I know everyone is going to love part two for context, for people who don't know you came on the show. May. And during the first 10 minutes of your episode, we covered your career journey in great detail. We talked about how you became an entrepreneur, what you were like as a student, how you have over 17 years of selling experience.
[00:02:25] And so anybody who's interested in that detail, you can go back to listen to part one it's episode number 26, and for my listeners who don't want to go back to episode 26, could you just give a brief introduction of yourself and let us know like what you do today?
[00:02:42] Richard Moore: And go full life story. So just in a nutshell, I moved between about two main areas at the moment, which one is I mostly train corporate sales.
[00:02:52] So I'm going often into London and I coach professional sales teams on, face to face selling and often a lot, a bit being big ticket and [00:03:00] really the art of getting it right. And being effective in that kind of the other path. Whilst doing that online. I also do a very big focus on the way in which people should be marketing themselves with a view to getting meaningful engagement, which actually stems very closely from sales as well.
[00:03:17] But then the other side is really for fun and a hobby, but also to drive money into local charities. I run entrepreneur business life, which was a kind of half fledgling when we last spoke, but it's been a rocket last year and I really enjoyed that too. So it's nice to have these events around them.
[00:03:32] Hala Taha: Very cool. So Richard is a selling expert. He is a community building expert online, and now he's an expert on live events. So lots of cool things that you do. I thought a fun way to kick off this episode and for our audience to learn more about you and who you are, would be to cover your reflections from 2019.
[00:03:52] So you put up this really neat post on LinkedIn. It was like a slideshow where you outlined six elements that helped you. [00:04:00] 2019 a success. You called out cool elaboration, community thinking, partnerships, travel and listening. Could you go through this with us? I think there was some great valuable lessons in this, and I'd love to hear what you have to say.
[00:04:13] Richard Moore: Thank you. Yeah, it wasn't a good reflection, I think at the end of the year. And I always do a bit of an audit my year, actually in my head, always. On my birthday, I always do my 12 months. And then it just means I don't get too wrapped up in the new year's resolution kind of thing. Still on calendar days, it was really nice to look through what happened last year, because it was a very strong one for me and the thread running through.
[00:04:34] Most of it was working with different people and communities and the results of how totally have a foundation of, I've got to be careful when I say building communities, it's more inhabiting a community, but having an audience that pays attention to me and sticks to me. And I think I disproportionately spend a lot of time with the individuals strategically.
[00:04:55] I'm careful with who it is I focus on, but I make a point of spending huge amount of time each [00:05:00] day, interacting with individuals because that really. Has driven things like the awareness of events, people then saying, Hey, I'd love to host event. It'd be an honor to speak at one of the events because you're putting the work in terms of the human connection.
[00:05:13] I think another one of the things I put in that post was partnerships as well. So doing intentional and carefully placed collaborations and partnerships with other businesses and with other people as been a really nice way of leveling me up. Partnerships with businesses, such as subtitle, who out with captions has been a really nice way of.
[00:05:33] Firstly funding some of the events, but secondly, helping my proposition, but then also collaborations with really important people. And fantastic influences has meant that my ability to penetrate further and whip up an audience has been as been effective. I think the thing that I got the most from the year was just really trying to prove I was being legit by traveling.
[00:05:54] And I think I traveled about 10 times last year to different countries for different events of [00:06:00] mine. And that really made the point that I was serious about building the events. And when you build communities online, we've both experienced how powerful it is when you meet them. Face-to-face and I remember the photo I put on that post was of in fact, only about a week away from today.
[00:06:16] Last year, January 24th was New York, our first international event. Seeing so many familiar faces, who've been part of this community I was building and I think interacting with online, lying in and having this event with them was really powerful. And the travel really reinforces the intent behind wanting to engage with people.
[00:06:36] And I'm really just I'd say it solidifies that community has just been a really wonderful past twelve months.
[00:06:41] Very cool.
[00:06:42] Hala Taha: And next time you're in New York, let me know. I would love to attend one of your events. It's so much fun.
[00:06:49] Richard Moore: We're looking at May, so hopefully soon.
[00:06:51] Hala Taha: Okay, awesome. So we're going to continue on the sales theme of our previous episode Selling is Tricky. Everybody [00:07:00] wants to have a technique and methodology, but then there's also a balance you have to take to be organic and natural. So from your perspective, you're a selling guru. Do you think that selling is more of an art or a science?
[00:07:14] Richard Moore: That was great question. But for the record, I've not called myself a guru.
[00:07:18] That's very kind of you to say, but yeah, I think that it can be made as science. But you really when you understand that there is an artistry to it, and there's an elegance that comes through the experience. And if you think about it, if you've never done sales before, by the time you're say aged 20, a really good way of putting it is that you are a master of the art of communication by then.
[00:07:42] And like I've got two young daughters and even the youngest, who's four. Phenomenal at understanding nuances and the pattern in the way people interact just alone, understanding how people speak as an artist, you too and selling to develop the art side. [00:08:00] It's about a high amount of exposure to being on the pitch.
[00:08:05] Basically, the more you can be doing it and interacting with people, but more, you. Subconsciously pick up on those little nuances and things that stop you. You're not aware of that. Something in your brain that, that understands and files away and remembers for the next time. And those little nuances develop.
[00:08:24] I can sit down and give people great formulas. Really level them up, for instance, here's how you, pre-qualify a lead and find the best person to speak to in a sea of a thousand people, looking at your content online, for instance, and things like that will make a large difference to your results.
[00:08:42] If you're coming from zero, but the truth is it's always a human sport. To move to a place where people are thankful that they get to buy from you. And they're warmed up to the point where an [00:09:00] onboarding phone call, if that's the way you do it, for instance is like a validation that they were going to buy from you.
[00:09:05] Anyway, that requires a lot of elegance. And I think that it does come from. Feeding yourself with enough interactions with humans. Just if you network enough, you get the hang of it. If you speak to people enough, you get the hang of it. All this stuff really is just practice and time on the pitch. So in many ways, my success now comes from the fact of just being, doing a very long time.
[00:09:27] Whilst at the same time, I'm a bit of a student of it all as well. So I'm a big fan of the formulas and the systems that do work.
[00:09:34] Hala Taha: Yeah. So typically a sales process or formula is usually like five to seven steps. It varies slightly, but usually it's prospecting preparation approach, presentation, objection, handling, closing, and perhaps follow up.
[00:09:51] Let's start at the basics. What is prospecting? How do you define prospecting for people who are new to sales?
[00:09:57] Richard Moore: Yeah, it's difficult because it's so different for every [00:10:00] product and every type of cellular after. But the idea with prospecting is even if you go a little bit of a step further back in fact is looking at prequalification.
[00:10:08] So how can I in any way possible, before even engaged with anyone, apply some kind of. Intelligent filters here to ensure I'm going to be as effective as possible. How do I essentially minimize the amount of approaches that won't take me anywhere? And it can be simple things like if you're approaching a business, are you actually speaking to the top person?
[00:10:31] Because whilst there's a number of routes in, if you do get the top person and the ultimate decision maker, you're always in a better place than someone who's going to go and internally sell on your behalf. So that can start. And then really when you feel you've got the right person, it's doing a motorcar of research to at least to make sure that you're seeing what your angle is.
[00:10:51] If you can answer like these three questions, why now, why us and why change those three things [00:11:00] are innately being asked all the time by the person you're about to speak to. So like, when you can answer those in the first few sentences, they really get it. And yeah. Before we get to that point of the pitch, we just need to be thinking, how do we warm them up?
[00:11:13] And that's very 20, 20. Now I should say this idea of saying how do I position myself that if I am to approach someone, to engage with someone, they're going to say, oh my God, yeah. I've seen you around you. We're already halfway there and I think that's where there's a whole world of exciting ways in which you can warm people up.
[00:11:33] Being careful with the first message for hat perhaps, or how you deliver that, maybe use a voice memo instead of text. And maybe the things you say is a little bit more of a tease rather than just ramming a PDF down someone's throat as the first point of contact, really thinking about how you warm them up and get them saying, okay, I'm showing some perceptivity.
[00:11:52] Yeah. Now let's move to that first point of conversation or a meeting or something like that.
[00:11:59] Hala Taha: Yeah, [00:12:00] let's dig into that warming up a little bit. What do you mean exactly by that for somebody who's unfamiliar with the term?
[00:12:05] Richard Moore: Sure. So as much as possible, if I'm going to pitch someone, I want them to feel warm and receptive to me.
[00:12:12] People have always hated being sold to, but because nowadays, if you approach them and out of the blue, that tends to be. I couldn't conditioned cynicism that you're going to sell them and people aren't don't want that. You have to gain a bit of trust first because everything hinges on trust. And so the warming process is about you validating that your someone who's going to bring them some value, and that might be emotional value in that you're a good person and an interesting person to interact with or practical value because you can actually help them in their business.
[00:12:43] And it can take a number of forms. It can be as simple as leveraging a mutual contact. So if I say, I think I've mentioned this in the last talk we did, if I talk about someone that I am connected to, that, that validates that I'm a bit more legit and you're [00:13:00] more likely to want to lean in and listen to what I have to say.
[00:13:03] It might be that. Try the approach of putting out content and directing it to people like you. So that's the content warms you up and makes you think, Hey, this person can really help. And literally yesterday I received as usual DMS in response to my content, which is part of the sales warming process.
[00:13:23] And the guy said, I see you as the person to come to in terms of sales and now's the time. That's warming people up it's so that they decide they self-select, they decide that they want to buy from you, or at least they want to hear what you have to say. And people say people buy people. But what it really means is when there's trust from one person to another, there is the platform for receptivity to happen.
[00:13:50] And and that's the best place to begin a pitch. And without warming up the pitch is a very difficult and awkward.
[00:13:57] Hala Taha: Yeah, that makes total sense. [00:14:00] Sticking on some definitions. What's the difference between a lead and a prospect? I feel like a lot of people get these terms confused.
[00:14:09] Richard Moore: Yeah, it is hard because it's semantics and I can go to two companies in London that I coach and they will use different terms, mean different things.
[00:14:17] But Lucy speaking, at least. In my world represents someone who technically could be sold. So there's an element of pre-qualification, but probably I've not engaged with them. So if you, for instance, said to me, Richard, I know someone who totally could benefit from. Whatever it is you do. Or if I said, hello, I know someone who'd be a great guest on your podcast.
[00:14:42] That would be classes, a lead for me, a prospect is something of an opportunity. And that's where I've taken the lead to a level where maybe I've engaged with them a bit. And it's looking there's a level of receptivity. And then of course we have other nomenclature for when they've gone further into the [00:15:00] sales process and have been paged for instance.
[00:15:02] But essentially for me, at least, Technically that person is have applied a couple of filters. The demographic is right. The role in the businesses, and probably there's an element of need there. And essentially I'm looking for, can they control budget? Do they have the authority to spend it? And is there probable need for what I have.
[00:15:22] Hala Taha: Got it makes sense. And so you talk about something called a power base, your sales power base. I thought this was really cool. Could you explain that to our listeners?
[00:15:32] Richard Moore: Power base in basic terms, and this is a bit of a borrowed raise from many other people. From everyone from grant Cardone to anyone else that uses this term a lot in sales, the idea is it's that your closest circle of people.
[00:15:46] And if you look at, for instance, the entrepreneur business group on Facebook that I've run, this will be its fifth year and in August, they'll be running that group. That's a group of 4,000 plus people who are part of it. But within [00:16:00] that, there's a tighter group, like a hard core of maybe fans, but certainly those who are receptive to what's put into the group and that's like the that's a power base.
[00:16:11] That's one where I, if I'm stuck for leads, I'm stuck for business. For example, I could go there and that would be. What other people might call low hanging fruit, a power base. When you start a business is probably friends and family. And what that means really is hitting up the people again, who are easy to speak to her already receptive to you because you've earned the right to speak to them and ask them if they could do your favor, because you've lived with them or whatever, and say, Hey, do you know someone.
[00:16:41] Be able to help. And so a power base ideally will grow virus-like as you experience more and more communities and habit them and engage with people. But your power base is always a place you can go back to if you're, pipeline's looking a little thin for the month and you feel like business might be a bit [00:17:00] low, who would you send a message to?
[00:17:02] And, the message wouldn't be, Hey, do you need some work? What you would say? Something like, do. Who might need help with this? The people you naturally could go to first, your inner circle. That's the power of, I said always worth checking in with them and keeping them on side perhaps once a month.
[00:17:22] Hala Taha: That is really great advice. Let's move on to the sales approach, focusing on emotion and sales for a few minutes, Dale Carnegie once said when dealing with people, remember you're not dealing with creatures of logic, but with creatures of emotion and while the logical details of a sale are important, your buyers really make decisions based on how they feel about you and your product.
[00:17:47] And so you're a proponent of starting the sales process with emotional value and not practical value. Could you explain the difference between the two and why you choose to start off with emotional value?
[00:17:59] Richard Moore: The reason why is [00:18:00] because I'm selling to people and I'm selling to creatures that operate in a particular way, and it seems intuitive.
[00:18:09] To give someone an intelligent grown-up decision-maker and seems intuitive to give them the logic and the facts. We're trying to be helpful. We're trying to be clear, but the truth is that's not how the human animals brain works. The human brain starts with a real. Animal instinctive and emotional sensor.
[00:18:34] That is like the gatekeeper to you sales analogy before getting to the logic center. So if I want to interface with anyone. I have to go through the emotional part of the brain first, no matter how logical that person is, they might be famous for it. It all starts with emotion and very loosely speaking.
[00:18:57] And I'm not a psychologist, but I just have [00:19:00] gleaned this from being around enough people over the years. If you're approaching someone cold. They're subconscious cause it's a subconscious part. This isn't an internal conscious dialogue of their subconscious part of their brain will receive whatever approach you give them.
[00:19:16] This is moments into the first, second, and make a judgment on if you are a threat or if they might win here in some form or if they should be indifferent to you and the reactions. It's chemical and it's happening inside their brain. And that's where they decide if they need to leverage the intelligence center of the brain, the logical part, because that actually takes a lot more energy.
[00:19:45] And your status of your brain is always trying to keep it like minimal use of energy, essentially. So whatever part of your brain is, I think it's called the limbic brain, the old part of your brain, the kind of the, some people call it the lizard brain or the croc brain all the time. Varying the real [00:20:00] animal partners not evolved from, a hundred thousand years ago, whatever basically says, am I in trouble or could this be really great for me?
[00:20:07] If it's neither of those, then discard and lose interest. So when you do something or say something that lights that up, you access the logical part and now you've earned the right. To speak to someone because now they are receptive and paying attention in survives. The brain is switched on and that's why logic first is a mistake because the animal brain doesn't respond to that.
[00:20:32] So it is indifferent to it. And that's why great example Hala is recently I worked with someone. Yeah. Started their sales process through emails. They were trying to be helpful. Their first email to cold prospects was over a page long loads of stats, underline bits, cute little URLs and attached PDF, bold writing here, there, and everywhere.
[00:20:55] And no one was bothering to look at it. We broke it down and it ended up [00:21:00] being two lines along the line of would you like to be published in this. I'm around tomorrow for a coffee between these times, is that work for me? The reason why that first-line worked. That instant win of, oh, I get to look good.
[00:21:14] I get to be published. This will be amazing. And I remember she came to me, she was like, I've only sent three of them so far and I'm three of three. They're literally like, cool, let's go, let's try this. And that has to be done the right way. So you got to understand with empathy, how the person, the other side of the table is going to receive.
[00:21:34] And when you get that, but Ryan, it is psychology. It is understanding behavior. You can be so much more penetrative and you don't make an idiot of yourself because you haven't got people going, oh, this is awkward. I don't want to engage with you. And then, people don't ghost you and things like that.
[00:21:47] And it's the, world's a nicer place when you engage people emotionally first.
[00:21:51] Hala Taha: So essentially you're proposing that whether it's an email or an in-person conversation, like the first couple of lines you say [00:22:00] is really trying to get the person to feel better, right? As you elevate their emotional state.
[00:22:06] Richard Moore: The wins, there are four main ones. I think I covered this before, but save time. Save money, make money. Sure. That can help. But really the main one is look good or an extension or variation of look good because that feeds the ego. And the nice way to do this is to leverage a peer or a mutual contact. Okay. Cause if I was to say, I can make you look better online Hala.
[00:22:29] The problem is we've got too much cynicism there, but if I talk about how I've worked with a mutual contact, then that may be. Much more believable as well, but I'm playing to your emotional center of wanting to do better in this world. Look good and be accepted by people. Now I know you're not that sure.
[00:22:48] But the emotional side of your brain is everyone's brain reacts in the same way. Can I look better in some way, not necessarily in terms of fashion labels or whatever, [00:23:00] but generally speaking, does this improve social status for me? And if there's any kind of inclination towards that, then that gets a little bit of a light flash in the brain.
[00:23:09] And so those winds are crucial to gently put in at the entry point.
[00:23:15] Hala Taha: Totally. And so there's lots of emotions that drive buying behavior. For example, like greed. If I make a decision, now I will be rewarded fear. If I don't make a decision, now I'm toaster. I'm going to be fired all truism. If I make a decision, now I'm going to help others.
[00:23:33] So everybody has these different motives to buy something. How do you suggest that you uncover what those motives are?
[00:23:41] Richard Moore: Yeah, it's always interesting. What makes people tick is different each time. And some people are motivated by money or saving time and others just don't care. And that happens over the process of engaging with people.
[00:23:54] And as soon as possible, once you've earned the right to speak a bit more, as in, you've [00:24:00] got some sense that they're acknowledging your value here, you need to get into questions and get the person speaking. Really, again, this comes down to warming them up. Ideally, if I was, for instance, sending an email, I'd want to do that little win and start and suggest, that we meet or speak on a phone or something like that.
[00:24:19] And when we got on the phone, there's that receptivity because we've decided to have this and never agreed to it. And now I can ask them, so some really light questions to get the book. Because there's an in conversation. If you study the way people interact, not just in business, but in general, in conversation there's momentum and momentum comes from both.
[00:24:40] People is difficult when you have an interview. Cause it's not entirely the same as an average conversation would be. But typically there's momentum in that there's ebb and flow and back and forth and dynamics and so on. But in essence, if you're approaching someone you want to condition. To speaking and naturalize them [00:25:00] to the idea that they are going to be speaking, because if you talk at them, non-stop, you can conditioned them that they're not going to be speaking.
[00:25:09] So the way you do this, the way you open people up is with closed questions, being simple. Yes. No answers or singular word answers. Just to begin with. The more specific, simplistic questions. You ask someone the more they will answer them. And the more they answer questions that are the more they answer the next question.
[00:25:26] And then the larger question. And you can appreciate that the more interest they take, because they're speaking, the more you earn the right to ask the bigger.
[00:25:35] Hala Taha: So what's like an example of asking a question in the right way and then asking a question in the wrong way.
[00:25:42] Richard Moore: In fact, the best thing to do is think about the smallest possible questions cause they are the ones that nudge it along nicely.
[00:25:47] And I'm the smallest questions you can ask are what's known as acknowledgement questions and acknowledgement questions are ones where it's almost not actually a question. It's just things. Does that make sense or right. Or [00:26:00] it can be in just tonality or reports and I've just done it there to get that from you.
[00:26:05] So it's things inside what I'm saying. So the way you do it, as you ask, so does that make sense? Or you put tonality at the end like that. So it goes up at the end of the sentence to suggest the question or you leave a pause on those two things. Almost puppet, master someone into speaking and just the little noises to start with can get the ball rolling.
[00:26:27] But ideally I want to move to a place where I'm asking something slightly larger than an acknowledgment question, which can be almost anything like within 10 and meaning how are you and how are things, or did you see I'd sent that email or do you know, Hala who I spoke to the other day or, whatever it might be that you're here.
[00:26:47] I would use that. And that's the, that's your commonality that you use to begin with? And this is no different to, if I sit down with someone at a wedding and next to that person, and I've never met [00:27:00] them before. I use the commonality of the fact where at the wedding and I, my in is, how do you know the bride or something like that.
[00:27:07] And as that person starts, the first few words of speaking, I'm not over the top with it, but a little bit of encouragement and those acknowledgement questions. Oh, and things like that, just to nudge them along. And so what you're doing is you're setting a little spark and you're starting the process of tenderly stoking a little fire.
[00:27:26] It really is how it should work. In the main, when you approached someone in business cold to sell them, you need to take this approach of really nurturing the little flame of a fire of a conversation if you like. Cause after a while it really blossoms, but you've got to put the work in essentially.
[00:27:43] Hala Taha: Totally. And so I know that when you're building a relationship and sales, your main focus is really to build trust. And you say it's really everything to get the human in front of the prospect. And now it is online. It's very impersonal. A lot of it is [00:28:00] automated text-based so how can we be more human online?
[00:28:05] What's your perspective on that?
[00:28:08] Richard Moore: I'm really behind is because people are trying to leverage direct message or private messages to warm people up is to use voice memos because all the platforms, even the likes of LinkedIn, now you can voice memo on it and it's the way I operate. Firstly, you are so much more productive when you use voice memos, because you can get so many more done rather than sitting around typing all day.
[00:28:35] But second. Those little nuances. So intent, emphasis, dynamics, meaning emotion. It comes through when you speak. And that's why we're not doing this interview via text. We're doing it through audio so people can hear what I really mean. And we can really get the meaning behind your questions as well. So voice members are massive.
[00:28:58] They're very [00:29:00] positively disruptive because firstly, no one can make a judgment on if they'll even bother responding to it by reading it because they can't, they have to click on play and it's like a little treat. That you gave someone when they get that little voice memo. So they click on play and it's a nice little bespoke message just for them.
[00:29:16] That we're not quite in a world yet where people are automating that and using bots for them. So using voice memories is a really good example of giving yourself and showing more of the human, because the more of the person. The voice, the way you move. So video as well is a great way of building familiarity.
[00:29:37] And if there's familiarity, that's like the seed of trust. That's why I do my live shows and that's why I do video because someone who's never met me just like you and I, if we've watched in our films and TV, we have a sense of who that celebrity is. We have a sense almost like we know them. That's where the connection is far more rapidly made than if I just did.[00:30:00]
[00:30:00] Hala Taha: Yeah, you're leading me to my next question, which was about your live stream. So I noticed that you leveraged live stream and such a cool way. You ended up going live on multiple platforms at the same time, and you actually take that content and turn it into micro content. How has live streaming worked out for you?
[00:30:20] Has it been effective for you so far?
[00:30:23] Richard Moore: Because although you don't directly get ROI in the sense that someone goes, Hey, can you sign me up? And can I buy. Thing in the actual livestream itself, it does happen if I'm, for instance, promoting an event, people then go and buy, or I use it often to promote, sign up to the newsletter, all the soft stuff, but I don't sell high ticket courses or anything like that.
[00:30:44] But the reason why it's worked so well is precisely what I've just been saying. It validates who I really am. We've done 181 weeks of it now, consecutively. I'm not that good. An actor to sustain being someone different or to front as a [00:31:00] certain type of Richard. I am totally just me. And basically I'm there for those who want to show up each week for the person that I am.
[00:31:09] And so I love to riff. I love it when it's raw. Yeah. For an hour every week, I'm just being me. And if that works for people, it's not a surprise at all, actually that those people tend to be the ones who follow me elsewhere and they end up buying things as well. So it's the best way of showing people what you're really like.
[00:31:27] And that is what is probably the main upside to doing that.
[00:31:32] Hala Taha: Yeah. I think that live stream is the closest thing that we can get to human connection online until VR is commercialized. Yeah. And so if you can leverage it, you definitely should. I'm really excited because I just got access to LinkedIn live.
[00:31:48] And so I'm going to. Yeah, thank you. So I'm going to start doing some of my interviews live, and I'm going to be doing a similar strategy to you where, you have your long videos and then turn it into short form content. Thanks [00:32:00] for the inspiration.
[00:32:01] Richard Moore: You're welcome. And the thing with LinkedIn is I've been doing it for years on Facebook and Instagram and a bit on YouTube, but the thing about LinkedIn is it really is a nice place to court, a business audience as well.
[00:32:12] And it's just that much closer. To if you're going at things from anything to do with the commercial aspect at all then it is a really great place to win, but the bandwidth is better on LinkedIn too. You get a lot more people by comparison to the other platforms. So I'm pleased.
[00:32:27] Hala Taha: Yeah, let's stick on social media for a bit.
[00:32:30] Let's talk about your connections, right? You've built a big community on multiple social platforms. How do you actually go about taking those connections and following and turning them into clients? What's your strategy with that?
[00:32:44] Richard Moore: So it's an interesting one because a lot of the people who I interface with are the entry points to that own network.
[00:32:54] There's a lot of content creators and people who are maybe doing things similar to me, who I'm not necessarily going to [00:33:00] close, but the reason why I still engage with them is that knowing that they have a network, some of their people will be going through to see my content and they will sell themselves a bit to answer your question directly.
[00:33:12] I don't do outbound. I create a map back from a situation where people can't help themselves. I want to send me that message. I'm really love what you do. And I've essentially self-selected myself to need help from someone like you. What are the next steps and what that looks like is being everywhere. As much as you can, through a system of repurposing and micro content so that it appears that I have this abundance.
[00:33:44] If I'm not actually online all the time and being useful to people against Particular subject area. So it takes time. It's been almost two years a bit doing on LinkedIn now, but it moves you to a place where you're in people's conversations, you're in people's [00:34:00] posts. They post about you, they tag you and so on and you create that name and it takes time.
[00:34:05] As I say, it moves you to place where you get known, not just reputation, but you get known for. Being the guy that does that thing.
[00:34:12] Hala Taha: Yeah. So it's almost like word of mouth.
[00:34:14] Richard Moore: Yeah. And I'm relying on that. And the truth is that I could gain it more. I could get into more DMS and close more and more people, but actually it is really fulfilling to create a world where I'm being useful to people and validating that I'm good at what I'm doing.
[00:34:35] And so those that would buy for me, Decide when it's right for them to reach out. And that is the best organic way to do it. And if you were okay, if you have enough money to survive, I suggest this speedy approach. You can do outbound, but it's far better to say I'm actually good. So let's focus on being useful to people and let them come to me.
[00:34:59] And of [00:35:00] course, when they do. Come to me, I will then move to a sales or closing process, but in the main I grant as much as possible a situation where they take the first step. Cause I think that feels good for them.
[00:35:11] Hala Taha: I love that advice. I think it's great. How about we go back to the sales conversation as we were doing your research, we noticed that one of your favorite phrases to use is I'm your man.
[00:35:25] Why is this phrase so powerful?
[00:35:27] Richard Moore: Because it short circuits that bright part of the brain we talked about that suggests there might be some fear or overthinks things and worries. I'm your man. Requires a microsecond of the watt, but you basically say if it's technically something you could do, then it's, it's.
[00:35:46] Yes. And it's a great way of learning how to jump. Too much over thinking, paralyzes you and throws up the, oh, but what if this happened? And that happened. And I personally find it exhilarating to work a lot of things [00:36:00] out as I go, but also back at myself to be able to deliver certain things really well. And in the main, if someone comes to me and says, Hey Richard, are you available to come to our company and speak about this?
[00:36:11] This is what our company do. It does. It's yeah, I'm your man. And then I'll work it out from there. And that doesn't mean I'm winning it or making up fully as I go. It's that I know the answer will be, I can do it in the end, and I know that I will do a good job. And so let's jump because that saves me going through any hassle of thinking about the downside too much.
[00:36:32] I am very much a jump and build the plane on the way down kind of person. So what I'm trying to articulate here is that the amount of thought I do put in is small. Yes, it is focused on, is this technically in my sphere? If it is, it's a yes, rather than, oh, I don't know. Cause there are different ways in which we could look at this and therefore I might not be quite right.
[00:36:51] It's no, come on. Let's make this bright for me. And if it off piece then totally not what I do then of course it would be a no, but I tend to be asked stuff around what I do. And [00:37:00] best thing to do is jump and say, yep, I'm your man. And that's fun. It takes you to some really exciting things.
[00:37:06] Hala Taha: Yeah. So it basically just eases the person's concern, right?
[00:37:10] Richard Moore: Yeah. Because time fuels fair. The more you think about stuff, the more that animal part of your brain says, you don't want to do that because you might be. Socially ostracized. And that would be bad because your tribe wouldn't be there to look after you. And it's all of these instincts that are against you.
[00:37:29] That actually aren't relevant in 2020 in the world we live. So you want to short circuit that. So you don't have the fearful animal talking to you and making decisions.
[00:37:39] Hala Taha: Salespeople often get a rap that they can be really aggressive. And I think that the aggressive approach really never works. It's such a turnoff.
[00:37:47] How do you advise that people be aggressive in terms of being proactive, but not necessarily turning off their customers with this aggression?
[00:37:57] Richard Moore: Totally. The answers that you need to be aggressive, but [00:38:00] you're aggressive with yourself. What that means is you push yourself and drive yourself to engage with as many people as possible.
[00:38:07] You're aggressive with your research. You're aggressive with making sure you're displaying some empathy that you plan, how you say those first few lines and so on, spend as much time as possible training yourself to. That's the key is the aggression that lies within you for yourself and being ambitious.
[00:38:25] But it's certainly, shouldn't go out to the people. You're trying to engage with the difficulty we have here. And this is why people get spammed. People always say, why are they doing it? Why are people starting a message when they've never heard of me before never met me before with a cell?
[00:38:41] The reason why is because that if you get one point of receptivity in 800 approaches, That's confirmation bias for many and rather than auditing the effectiveness, they're saying, do you know what I got? I got a, yes, therefore do another 800 and I'll get another. Yes, [00:39:00] it's that confirmation bias drives the kind of work with companies where it's hundreds and hundreds of phone calls every week per person.
[00:39:10] And the majority of people aren't interested, but two a day will show an interest. One a week we'll buy, therefore do and all the time. And it's kinda soul destroying, but if it makes you some money at the end of each month, then that confirmation bias perpetuates it. But we really need to think is rather than doing volume put more stock in, in being effective.
[00:39:31] It's far more fulfilling, the two fears that sales typically is a money game as well. And when commissions involved, people don't want to put work in, they want their money. And so they cut corners and in a world like LinkedIn, for instance, you've got 600 million people there. So because volume is a feature you can afford to be an irritant because enough people will say yes, if there were only 13 people.[00:40:00]
[00:40:00] Or LinkedIn you'd appreciate the approaches be far more effective. And that's the problem is that people are know that there's always another phone number they can call or another person they can email. And you should act as though there is maybe only a handful and treat them like they're going to be your best ever customer.
[00:40:18] But the truth is though everyone knows this. It's just that it takes time and it requires effort. And the very best salespeople that have been fortunate enough to engage with and meet and see in action over the years, those that make millions every year, none of them do these spammy volume approach.
[00:40:36] All of them put the effort in and understand the importance of empathy for the actual individual research individual that they're trying to reach.
[00:40:46] Hala Taha: Totally. How about we talk about closing a deal. There's so many differing opinions on how to close a deal. What are your top tips for that?
[00:40:58] Richard Moore: Yeah, it's interesting [00:41:00] because a lot of people will feel that you should always close and you should always ask regardless of how it's going and the classic approach, which is so out of date is yeah.
[00:41:09] Ask for the deal and that will throw up the objections and then you can handle them. But what that is a very reactive way of selling in that's your basically, you're just throwing an offer at someone. Expecting a problem. And then trying to handle that the problem itself, it's far better to be more preemptive and the best closes come when you've already warmed up person up and you've courted the emotion a bit more and you've got them feeling that you're someone worth trusting in someone that's confident.
[00:41:38] And that's got this and someone who can look after them. One of the most crucial elements in closing. Is that idea that you're going to look after that person. And it's interesting that the natural human approach is often one of a butler, right? So I'll do everything for you. Here are all the [00:42:00] options you decide.
[00:42:02] You're in control. But the truth is invariably buyers emotionally prefer a seller to know what's what, and to know what to do, and to be able to prescribe a solution. If you think about a doctor or an airline pilot or a barber. Or a tailor all these people, you don't look for options as much as someone who is in control and knows what they're doing.
[00:42:30] So that assurance emotionally that you have got this in terms of understanding of sphere goes a very long way. In addition to that, I think it's very important to understand that being on the same kind of wavelength as that person. So being able to get along with them banter, if there is some there and having an awareness of the little things that is going on between the two of you.
[00:42:54] So maybe there might be some things to research. Commonality, maybe you went to the same university [00:43:00] or, you lived in the same place or, a bar around the corner from where their office is. All the extra search is so available online and having that to really make the point that you're here as a trustworthy person, that goes so far when it comes to the closing side that there's this element of.
[00:43:16] Do you know what? You seem like a person who's not going to take my money and run. Trust thread is running through it all. But if I can be really practical because I feel like I feel that this could be a really good opportunity to give your listeners some real direct advice in terms of stuff they can do.
[00:43:32] There's a really important point, which is that you should separate the. From the price when it comes to closing. So what I'm saying here is really simply once you've described and summarize what it is you want to offer someone at that point, you should just check in and say, in principle, what do you think as a concept?
[00:43:51] Does this feel good before you given them the price? You get them to say, Richard, this is awesome. This is, you know what, this is just what I'm after they have [00:44:00] to earn the. To hear your price is a good way to look at it rather than giving them the price and the package altogether. It makes far more sense to get them sold on the point and the value in principle, because if they're not sold at that point, you're just going to give them a price for something they're not selling.
[00:44:19] Yeah, and they will subjectively then say that's too expensive. So you check first that they emotionally, and it may be a logically as well, feel solid that this is a great value proposition, then they own the right to here. Great. So that runs for 12 months at this price. Sound good. And now you're seeing the contrast or difference on now, how they feel about something based on the price.
[00:44:42] So ensure if I'm getting someone. Yeah. This is exactly what I'm after then I've legitimized giving them the price because I know they'll say, yeah, I totally see why you charge that. But if I've got someone who's ah, I suppose I don't really, I don't know. It could help. There's no way I should be giving them [00:45:00] a price.
[00:45:00] That's not going to progress the call. It's going to ruin it. And what it will do is it'll take the level of interest down and it's definitely turning. I'm not there yet. I need to loop back and be a bit more candid and just understand, like where did I drop the ball? Be careful don't close on the price until they have earned the right to hear it.
[00:45:20] And that's them selling you that they're convinced that your value's worth taking the conversation further.
[00:45:27] Hala Taha: Speaking of price, I came across something very interesting that you've said in the past, essentially you say that people should raise the price point every time you get a sale, what's the logic behind that because you could just,
[00:45:41] infinitely high in your price and become uncompetitive. So tell us about that.
[00:45:46] Richard Moore: Yeah. Let me put some parameters in there. It certainly is for certain types of product, because you may be in an industry where actually that's not a good way to do it. So if I sold, a Ford focus, every time I sell one, I put the price up because [00:46:00] someone's will have been willing to pay it is going to soon.
[00:46:02] Get me to a point where I get a lot of resistance on it, where I'm going with that. It's certainly with the high ticket products and services side of things. And what I've experienced is if someone's keen on coaching, for instance, And someone's seen huge value in it, then giving them a price point where they're like, yeah, sure.
[00:46:20] That makes a lot of sense. It's validated that someone's willing to pay that. So you should test. What about if I went up by another $500 or what about if I went up by another 2000 or something you should test it because it's a really good way of seeing. What your price is, should really be it's a good bit of market research, really.
[00:46:38] And when I started doing online consulting with Startups, I started at quite a low price point simply to validate to myself that I could close sales in this way. And then every time I got a sale, I just put the price up until I got to this point, my thought, okay, do you know what, that's the kind of price point this deserves because that's the bit where people are like, yep, totally get that.
[00:46:58] I'll pay that. And [00:47:00] it's just a good way of testing if you're going too low or too high. But it requires a volume of sales to really get a handle on it. If that makes sense.
[00:47:07] Hala Taha: Yeah. I think that's a great strategy. Like you said, to find the right price point and to also not sell yourself too short, you could be charging a lot more for your services, but you'll never know if you don't ask.
[00:47:18] Richard Moore: Exactly. And I think it's important to understand that it's all about the individual because value is a subjective thing. It's a perception is in the eye of the beholder. And I've been in meetings where I've done, two hours of coaching to a senior team of salespeople, and then thought it was worth every single penny.
[00:47:35] And I charged more than I would charge for a month of coaching because I knew that this was solving this one problem I had right now. It was literally putting out there fires right now. So the valued. Totally worth it. Of course there are other ones where it's maybe not quite as necessary. And so the price point reflects that as well is always ebb and flow with this kind of thing.
[00:47:55] It depends on the individual and their certain set of circumstances. Right then and there.
[00:48:01] Hala Taha: [00:48:00] Continuing on the topic of price. What's your perspective on discounting your products? Is that ever an effective strategy? It's the case typically that everyone technically can afford your place. Unless you haven't done that prequalification.
[00:48:16] Richard Moore: We talked about earlier. So if I'm approaching, people with a very low level of income with Lamborghinis, I'm not doing my prequalification correctly, but in the main, if you've done that bit, people can afford your product. So therefore, It's feedback. If they say your price points too much, that subjectively they feel your value doesn't match what you're asking them.
[00:48:40] It's your fault. You haven't sold them properly. And. I'm very happy that I've got a system that works where I massively go all in or warming the audience first and they organically choose themselves. And then come to me and say, I'd like to buy your product. That means that the discount [00:49:00] thing doesn't come up, really a tool.
[00:49:02] The reason why discount typically is thrown at a seller is because if you don't have any point of differentiation. Then you tend to find that the person looking for a point of differentiation. So they're looking for, they'll say something like what about if it was lower price point, if you don't resonate with that person, if you don't get on with them on the same wavelength, or maybe if the need for your product in and of itself is an entirely.
[00:49:27] That's where sometimes a discount kind of makes sense to the buyer again, to basically differentiate and say, you know what, maybe we could make this in some way valuable or interesting because if they're not sold on your and or the product, then lowering the price might make it feel a bit more validated.
[00:49:47] But in truth, you shouldn't have to discount someone who is a qualified lead. So someone who technically could buy. Totally the case.
[00:49:56] Hala Taha: Let me sense. So I have a lot of friends who are in [00:50:00] sales and sometimes I hear the excuse that they think that their product isn't good enough, or it's not sexy, it's boring.
[00:50:07] And that's why they have trouble meeting their quota each month. What is your advice to people who claim that their product is too boring.
[00:50:16] Richard Moore: Work on the basis? That's an excuse. Okay. Always work on the basis that's an excuse. I've had some really tough stuff to sell in the past and still managed it.
[00:50:26] Sometimes you gotta take a step back and say, I need a different approach. Let's go and do some research. Find some other people, get some different opinions from good salespeople on how they might attack it. And you've always got to map back from the wins for the buyer. How would they win as a result of making use of your product or service?
[00:50:45] And are they going to look good? Are they going to save time or give them the convenience? Are you going to make it the case that they make more money or save money? That's something to think. But you can give me a specific example here. And I think it's really good. One, [00:51:00] those that feel their product or industry is boring and it's such an important one.
[00:51:04] The truth is people buy people. So if you feel your product is boring, no problem. Don't talk about the product. Talk about you, express yourself, do skit. About the subconscious sub culture of your industry, poke fun at it, whatever it is, do something that's going to draw people to you because one of the most powerful things you can leverage is human curiosity.
[00:51:33] And it's the same as when you meet, think about it in the social context, because this is where I got the idea from and the social context of I meet somewhere. At a bar or whatever in, just in social environment that I find interesting or stimulating job. One, when you say goodbye to them is you check them out online, you go to Instagram, you go to Facebook.
[00:51:54] What this was this person like, and it's no different in business. If you can do [00:52:00] things that make people think who's this guy, this is interesting. A good number of them. Won't be able to help themselves. They will click on your name. Now, though on your profile and if you signpost it enough, they will find their way to what you do.
[00:52:14] Those that might need you for the thing you sell, the widget you sell. That's very boring when they need you. Your the one and the reason why you're the one is because buying your product boring though, right? Is at a time when they need it. And it's an example of another way in which they can consume you.
[00:52:36] So people show up for instance, for my show and for some it's Deathly deadly boring. Like how are you doing a show every week on selling and business? It's so dull for some, but for those who enjoy the way in which I do, and my vibe, when, if the time comes, they need something. I'm the one they think of because they like me more.
[00:52:58] And so [00:53:00] the science shows its best part of 60, 65% of the reason why someone decides to buy something. Boring or not is down to how they've interfaced with the brand or person. So the advice is really simple, do things that make you more stimulating to them, and it might be a longer play in terms of content, or if you're approaching people directly, one-on-one be the fun, interesting guy.
[00:53:25] Earns you the right to talk about the boring thing, because if you've identified the right person and they technically could need that and win from it then now they will wants to hear from you because you're a cool guy or an interesting woman. You see what I mean? So lead with being in interesting.
[00:53:42] Hala Taha: Yeah, it's really great advice. And just to hit it home for my listeners, if you think you have a boring product, you yourself, you need to be the interesting one, right? And you're the one who's going to draw on the customers. And then if they need your product, you'll be the right person to contact. So makes total sense, [00:54:00] Richard, this was such a great conversation.
[00:54:02] I really enjoyed it. We always end our show. Now with this last question, what is your secret to profiting in life?
[00:54:11] Richard Moore: Okay. I think good question. It's thinking a lot about how my future self would act, but also thinking a lot about how my past self would act. If they were in the room with me right now, watching what I'm doing.
[00:54:30] So my past self. The one who had to graft and grind and bleed through his eyes to get here. Imagine it, that person is sitting here right now, watching whatever task I'm working on or not. And to get ahead in life, I feel you need to ask yourself what cause, cause that's the greatest accountability is to yourself.
[00:54:50] If past Richard was sitting right here right now, would he say good? I'm glad you're honoring all the work I put in. Or would he be really annoyed at how I'm [00:55:00] slacking? Likewise is the future Richard also saying seriously, can you just get on with it so that I can start to exist? Or would he say awesome work?
[00:55:10] Well done. You're going to make me a reality. So thinking in a weird way about these multiple Richards has been a really good way of deciding if the thing I'm doing right now is a worthwhile task to be working.
[00:55:23] Hala Taha: I love that. We've never heard that one before. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do?
[00:55:30] Richard Moore: Sure. So it can all stem from my website if you like. So the therichardmoore.com or I'm very active on LinkedIn. So I'd love to meet some of your guests there. If you go to Richard James Moore or a word or LinkedIn, I'll be there as well. I'd love to speak to them.
[00:55:44] Hala Taha: Awesome. Thanks so much, Richard.
[00:55:46] Richard Moore: You're welcome. I'd really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.
[00:55:50] Hala Taha: Thanks for listening to Young And Profiting Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to leave us a review or comment on your favorite platform. Follow YAP on Instagram [00:56:00] @youngandprofiting and check us out @youngandprofiting.com and now you can chat live with us.
[00:56:04] Every single day on YAP Society on Slack. Check out our show notes or youngandprofiting.com for the registration link. And if you're already active on the YAP Society, share the wealth and invite your friends. You can find me on Instagram @ yapwithhala or LinkedIn, just search for my name. Hala Taha, big thanks to the YAP team as always stay blessed and I'll catch you next time.
[00:56:22] This is Hala signing off.
Enter your name and email address below and I'll send you periodic updates about the podcast.